Macri Or Fernandez's Who Will Win Paso

[ghost]

Bolsonaro needs to come off his high horse and realise that Argentines have a lot of pride (too much sometimes) and most would never dream of leaving Argentina no matter how bad it gets, with rare exceptions being Europe or US.

Bolsonaro thinks he is the Dotard of the South, maybe he is? [a Dotard]

 

[Johnny]

Bolsonaro needs to come off his high horse and realise that Argentines have a lot of pride (too much sometimes) and most would never dream of leaving Argentina no matter how bad it gets, with rare exceptions being Europe or US.

I have a good porteno friend here who is actively looking to relocate to Chile. He has recently retired and concerned that his "nest egg" (such as it is) is going to slowly, or very quickly, be reduced to near nothing. He's as proud and nationalistic as any Argentine you would be likely to meet, but has "had enough".

 

[lamarque]

Right.....

Camboriu, look the real numbers not a sensationalist article, for each Argentine that has ever gone to that country's to work there are thousand times more of people from that country's working here, is not about some Argentinean going there, off course if you get a good job or you want adventure you will go there but mostly the middle class people to get a good job, poverty on that country's is just terrible, so if you are poor you are better off staying here with a social plan that is why we import so much poverty. But most just stay here, and most of the ones that leave come back (i´m one Argentinean that went to live outside, more specifically to Germany and Ireland) most of the Argentinean friends i made there did not last to long and finish heading back home. If there is a single country that could even be considered here in south America to head to and only if you have a good job in advance before going, will be Chile (just talking because of stability that is a huge problem in this country). But to be fair there is no way i will head to chile.

 

[Idois]

...most of the ones that leave come back (i´m one Argentinean that went to live outside, more specifically to Germany and Ireland) most of the Argentinean friends i made there did not last to long and finish heading back home...

Why do you think this happens (not lasting long outside Argentina)?
Or perhaps, what made you come back (if you don't mind sharing)?

 

[lamarque]

The ENTIRE Argentine stock market now worth less than the Santander Brasil (US$40B vs. US$41B).

There are now 5 Brazilian companies that are each worth more than the entire Argentine stock market:

Petrobras - US$95B
Itau - US$85B
Ambev - US$80B
Bradesco - US$66B
Vale - US$60B

Ahah what does this have to do with anything? jaja brasil have almost 6 times the population of Argentina, it will be weird as hell if there are no bigger company's in there. Be objective camboriu. Brasil is a terrible country to live on, it has improve from what it was 50 years ago sure, i give you that while Argentina has done the opposite, but you still have instability, a hell lot more insecurity, a poor class way poorer than here and more marginalized, social problems that make the ones from here look small fabellas and villas everywhere. As if that was not enought the economy per inhabitant in brasil is almost 30% smaller than in Argentina. Granted brasil economy per capita was 400% smaller than argentina 50 years ago, so brasil has improve a lot and argentina has gone downward a lot, but still bolsonaro should wake up, he will not get more than a couple of thousand Argentineans at most going there with in real terms is nothing. Currently only 0.016% of the brasilean population is from Argentina, in the case of brasileans living in argentina this porcentage is 5 times bigger (still is not a big number in comparison to other inmigrants groups in Argentina)

 

[lamarque]

Uh

Why do you think this happens (not lasting long outside Argentina)?
Or perhaps, what made you come back (if you don't mind sharing)?

Mostly missing, most of my Argentineans friends there went because they have the second nationality, so it was fairly easy or because they had a wife or girlfriend there (that was mi case). but after the first 6 months of honeymoon they start missing personal relations, family, they start complaining of everything and how different it is, how stressful is working there, people been cold and they feel isolated, soon they get sad, weather as well have quite a big impact on life (i did not know this until i start experiencing it). At the end there is as well a feeling of insecurity of lack of a supporting network from friends, family, people you know in Argentina that there you don't have, other communities from different nationalities in South america did better in this country's because they kind of form collective societies (when i say they did better i mean they did not wanted to return back to their country's), for example my friends from peru lived there as if they where in Peru, they only hanged out with people from Peru or Ecuador or Central America and worked on Peruvian restaurants or this kind of jobs, the Brazilians where mostly having Brazilian friends and they where very active doing party's and networking withing this frame of Brazilians, in my experience most of the Argentinians where kind of lost in between, not able to totally be in one group or the other, they where not organized on a collectivity or frame of Argentinean. Many had friends from Spain or Italy or Germany or many other country's in Europe from the university, and this made things even worst because this people after one year or two moved to another country or city and then you feel like left alone, life in Europe is very mobile, people move from place to place all the time, making it hard to keep a group of friends, specially on a certain range of age (20-35), most Argentinean that are there are on the range of age, older people from Argentina rarely migrate as here is seen more like an adventure for young people that has no responsibility and not something cultural, people sometimes thought that i was crazy by going to live there from my friends and family and that kind of mentality make you wonder if maybe they where right when you are having a moment of feeling sad in there, My friends from Peru had the opposite experience, they had many people in their families and friends that migrated somewhere outside peru, so it was pretty normal for them, and people where mostly telling them that it was the best move they could had taken back from their home country's, so that helped a lot keeping them strong in there and not thinking on returning to their homeland.
Culture plays a big role, when many people from your country emigrate is more normalized, Argentina has been always a country that receive immigrant but has never produced to many emigrants so is not so normalized between your friends and family this concept, and they always wonder why did you went away when you had friends and family and relative good life in here (read relative).

 

[ben]

As regards leaving, I can tell you many, many Argentines left in the K years and will keep leaving, particularly those with a passport that allows them to do so. Many more would leave if they were able to. This is just among the people I know.

Yeah, good point. What I would do, if I truly struggled to put food on the table for my children at the end of the month, would be to vote for change. A change that would make that food even less likely to appear on the table.

This is basically the point here. To understand Argentina is to understand you are dealing with a population that has been “educated”, by the culture prevalent here, to expect politicians to basically provide for their needs, without realizing that they are responsible for understanding how things work, and that the right to vote brings along the responsibility to understand how your vote will impact your life.

We can agree that Macri has not even nearly done a bang-up job, and as @Churchill notes, most anyone voting for him would do so with gritted teeth - only because the alternative is so abominably worse. But many people see that Macri has not succeeded, and rather than understand what precisely it is that he has not succeeded at, simply say OK let's take the other guy.

=================

I will offer a prediction. The K crew will do exactly what I wrote Macri should have done.
The week - if not the day - after they win the election, they will introduce a raft of painful policies, and will argue - with or without any basis in reality - that they were forced to do so because of what Macri did.

They will trumpet this message ad nauseam, in every medium imaginable. They will be shameless about lying if necessary. Remember, this is a candidate who blames a 20% plunge in the peso’s value the day after he wins a primary, on his opponent’s policies over the past years. This is the crew who fined economists who published true inflation statistics. This is the crew that proclaimed “No hay cepo cambiario” with a straight face. This is the crew that threaten to close McDonalds unless they sold Big Macs at a discount so Argentina wouldn’t look bad on the Big Mac index.

These are not regular dishonest politicians, they turned shameless, bald-faced, up-is-down-black-is-white lying into an art form. You had better believe that a big enough % of the people who elected them will readily accept that whatever crap happens next will have been a necessary correction after the IMF-stooge, corrupt, concentration-camp-loving, genocidal Macri.

It’s gonna be a ride.

 

[manqo]

Bolsonaro thinks he is the Dotard of the South, maybe he is? [a Dotard]

Jair Bolsonaro ante posible recesión en Brasil: “Yo ya dije que no entendía de economía”

The resemblance is uncanny.

 

[Rich One]

1. Well it's a free fall..

El dólar saltó un 6,6% a $62,18 y el BCRA vendió u$s248 millones para contenerlo

El billete verde escaló en bancos y agencias de la city porteña, según el promedio de Ámbito. El BCRA desplegó su estrategia para contener a la divisa que igual trepó $2,85. Sucedió en una rueda en la que el Presidente anunció una batería de medidas económicas tras el mal resultado para el...

www.ambito.com

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[Rich One]

Macri had a Phone talk with Fernandez to loosen the noose ..

Macri: "Recién tuvimos una buena y larga conversación telefónica con Alberto Fernández. Él se comprometió a colaborar en todo lo posible para que este proceso electoral, y la incertidumbre política que genera, afecte lo menos posible a la economía de los argentinos" ..!