Manning Sentenced To 35 Years In The Slammer Fair....!!

[ARbound]

It's disgusting, but expected. This is among the many reasons I could never vote for Obama or many democrats these days sadly. We finally have bipartisanship in DC on one issue: zealously attacking those who expose the wrongdoings of the government. Hell, when a democratic socialists like myself starts agree with the likes of Republican Libertarians you know we've headed down the rabbit hole.

I think the whole government spying, secrets, over prosecution, and public apathy/cheering for it can be summed with this David Suzuki (Canadian Environmental Activist) quote. Just sub in the environment for irresponsible police state.

We're in a giant car heading towards a brick wall and everyones arguing over where they're going to sit.

 

[camberiu]

Hell, when a democratic socialists like myself starts agree with the likes of Republican Libertarians you know we've headed down the rabbit hole.

Hi there

 

[StevePalermo]

And the war criminals Bush and Cheney walk free.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

I really don't know why the Captain of the Vincennes wasn't court-martialed. Civilians need to appreciate that combat leaders have a duty to protect their people. That means having to make very difficult decisions under intense pressure. We have multiple layers of checks and balances in order to attempt to eliminate civilian casualties. Often, we don't engage who we think are "bad guys" because we can't be 100% certain. And often, our non-engagement dramatically increases the risks to us personally or to our own people.

That being said, the Captain of the Vincennes had a history of being a maverick. Aside from the Hollywood fiction of Top Gun, mavericks are not well-respected in the military and are certainly not seen as hero's. In that incident, if I recall correctly, he deviated from the plan of the task force commander, illegally entered the territorial waters of Iraq, and launched the birds against the civilian jet even when the information he had at hand all pointed to this being a civilian aircraft. This is not what 99.99% of military professionals do. He was the .01% that should not have been in command of anything bigger than a typewriter. He should have been convicted.

Here is an example of another maverick who had a history of deviating from the plan and doing his own thing. This time he killed only himself and his crew. By the way, the co-pilot on the incident flight was the squadron's check-pilot on the flight specifically because of the pilot's bad history. You can click on the 9:00 mark to see the result. The young man's voice on the video is the pilot's son who was watching the flight.

 

[John.St]

Soviet Union, Iran, Communist China, USA, Campuchia, North Korea - stay away from rogue states.

 

[camberiu]

I really don't know why the Captain of the Vincennes wasn't court-martialed.

Well, I think it is the same reason why the crew of the Apache on the video leaked by Manning were not court martialed: Most Americans don't care about the lives that were lost. So, why would the military go through the stress and friction of court martialing them?
I was a kid living in Brazil when Iran Air 655 was downed by the USS Vincennes, and yet it was HUGE news there and I clearly remember the event and the overall disbelief and shock of the news caster as they read the story. Yet, very few of my American friends and colleagues of my age know, remember, or care about that event. Most have no idea that the US shot down an Iranian plane loaded with civilians, killing everyone on board, without any provocation whatsoever. And honestly, even after they are told, they don't give a shit.
Most people don't care GS_dirtboy. They don't know and don't want to know about some randomly killed sand-nigger somewhere in the middle east. They care about American Idol, Trayvon Martin, Oprah or the new Royal Prince. Without political pressure, why court martial somone for causing loss of lives that have no perceived value?
Captain William C. Rogers was not only never charged with anything whatsoever, his ship and crew were actually decorated because of the event.

 

[arlean]

Poor little Bradley. Just another small man wanting to become a big man. Unfortunately, like Snowden, neither one had the brains to think through the opportunity and do the job right.

Ghost, I'm really interested in how you think they should have done it. Being a whistleblower would be incredibly scary so I can't see that anyone was doing that to be a big man. I think they are probably courageous men that care and thought people should know. But still I'm interested to know what they should have done.

Having said that, I have wondered if Snowden might have been a planned distraction to keep everyone hanging on his escape instead of watching other things that we should have been watching. Who among us did not know that all of our emails and conversations were being recorded? Maybe Europe didn't, but it sure wasn't news to anyone half-way savvy in the U.S. But if I were going to be a whistleblower I would have my plans well laid out ahead of time as to where I would go. But then I'm not in his shoes and I don't know what might have happened.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

Well, I think it is the same reason why the crew of the Apache on the video leaked by Manning were not court martialed: Most Americans don't care about the lives that were lost. So, why would the military go through the stress and friction of court martialing them?
I was a kid living in Brazil when Iran Air 655 was downed by the USS Vincennes, and yet it was HUGE news there and I clearly remember the event and the overall disbelief and shock of the news caster as they read the story. Yet, very few of my American friends and colleagues of my age know, remember, or care about that event. Most have no idea that the US shot down an Iranian plane loaded with civilians, killing everyone on board, without any provocation whatsoever. And honestly, even after they are told, they don't give a shit.
Most people don't care GS_dirtboy. They don't know and don't want to know about some randomly killed sand-nigger somewhere in the middle east. They care about American Idol, Trayvon Martin, Oprah or the new Royal Prince. Without political pressure, why court martial somone for causing loss of lives that have no perceived value?
Captain William C. Rogers was not only never charged with anything whatsoever, his ship and crew were actually decorated because of the event.

I would respectfully disagree with your characterization that American's don't care about or don't value lives of people of other nations or that we see them as "sand niggers." That is as accurate as saying that all Brazilians live in the Amazon and run around naked in the jungle. I specifically remember this event not only because I was an active duty pilot and we were all talking about the incident vis a vis rogue commanders but also because of the huge media coverage that this event received. It got the same coverage and reaction that the downing of KAL007 by the Soviets produced.

That this happened "without any provocation whatsoever" is not true either, nor is it true that the crew of the Vincennes was awarded medals because of this event. The crew was awarded a combat action ribbon for participating for months in an active combat zone. Specific individuals were awarded "career" medals upon their retirement. None were awarded medals because they shot down an airliner. That being said, the Captain should have been court martialled.

I saw the footage of the Apache attack when it was first leaked. The cameraman running around buildings, peeking around corners holding a large camera on his shoulder certainly could be ID'd as a guy with a rocket launcher. I remember thinking at the time that it looked like a launcher to me, he looked like he was setting up for a launch, and I'm a trained combat pilot sitting in my chair after the fact without anyone shooting at me. As tragic as these two events were the airliner shoot down is an indictable offense. The Apache attack might be depending upon whether the crew followed correct procedures.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

Back to PFC Manning, it is reported that he now says he's really a woman and wants to live as Chelsea Manning. Since he's headed to jail I'd have to say his timing is impeccable. :huh:

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Manning says is a woman !!!

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2013/08/22/us/22reuters-usa-wikileaks-manning.html?hp