Manning Sentenced To 35 Years In The Slammer Fair....!!

[Gringoboy]

I find it odd to say the very least, that all of a sudden we are calling Bradley Manning 'she', just because he has decided that he is no longer a 'he'.
I don't buy it.

 

[camberiu]

1) Camberiu - if Americans your age (I'm assuming you are in your 20s) - don't know about the events you posted, I respectfully suggest you need to find some better educated friends. My teenage nieces and nephews could tell you about most of them.

I am actually almost 40. I work for a company that is considered one of the most selective employers in the world. Most of my American colleagues come from very privileged families and attended top US universities (I am an outlier, since I went to a state university). Most of them have no knowledge or interest about any of those events.

3) Of course there are some barbaric activities committed by military personnel (in all countries). Is is particularly surprising when you take a group of young men, many of whom have never been out of the country and place them in a foreign culture in a high stress combat situation and give them permission to kill? Horrible yes, surprising no. And covering it up only makes it worse. When it happens, the only correct thing to do is admit, take steps to make sure it never happens again and punish those who crossed the line.

I agree, war is hell and makes otherwise good kids do horrible things, independently of country. The shocking thing is the lack of outrage from the American public about what the US military does overseas. I strongly recommend you watch this interview by retired US Army Colonel Andrew Bacevich. He explains the situation extremely well, and shows how willfully clueless and yet dependent, Americans are of those military adventures overseas. It is one of the best interviews I have ever watched.

You can watch it here.

PS-> I had the honor of meeting Mr. Bacevich in person once, when he visited our NYC office. He is an example of the type of great officers the US Military can and should produce.

 

[citygirl]

Can't get it to play (which is a different discussion as I continually have problems with lots of US websites) but I will definitely take a look. Thanks for passing it along.

I'm really surprised about your friends. You are a bit older than me but those things that you mentioned were all pretty big deals to me and we certainly studied them. Ignorance is not defensible, esp in this day and age so shame on your friends for keeping their head in the sand.

 

[camberiu]

Can't get it to play (which is a different discussion as I continually have problems with lots of US websites) but I will definitely take a look. Thanks for passing it along.

Try this one, as it is a Youtube link and you might have better luck with it. I was actually physically present there when he made this speech, and I had the privilege of speaking with him afterwards. He nailed it.

 

[dennisr]

. Most of my American colleagues come from very privileged families and attended top US universities (I am an outlier, since I went to a state university). Most of them have no knowledge or interest about any of those events.

. There is your problem, not a real cross section of America. They sound like a bunch of elitist to me. Elitists never give shit about anything but themselves anyway. Maybe you need to start rubbing elbows with the common folks to get a feel for the lay of the land.

 

[camberiu]

. There is your problem, not a real cross section of America. They sound like a bunch of elitist to me. Elitists never give shit about anything but themselves anyway. Maybe you need to start rubbing elbows with the common folks to get a feel for the lay of the land.

Common folk might be more well intentioned, but the reality is that they know even less. when I first moved to the US, I was living in mid Michigan. Very blue collar area. Folks were really nice (although a bit racist) but they knew nothing about history or world geography. It was right at the beginning of Desert Storm and there were lots of flag waving and patriotic songs. But most of them could not find Iraq on the map if their lives depended on it. I was asked many times at school if Brazil was near the conflict zone (even by some teachers).

 

[ARbound]

1) Camberiu - if Americans your age (I'm assuming you are in your 20s) - don't know about the events you posted, I respectfully suggest you need to find some better educated friends. My teenage nieces and nephews could tell you about most of them.

2) Arbound - I'm a bit confused why you think the average person in the US would know about what happened in Argentina in the 70s & early 80s. Typically, you probably are only going into that if you take a specialized class, ie LATAM studies. Otherwise, you're only going to get a brief outline of other countries histories at best. FWIW, I was aware there had been a dictatorship in Arg but I didn't know the details until my LATAM studies class in university. Which yes, did discuss US involvement in the region.

3) Of course there are some barbaric activities committed by military personnel (in all countries). Is is particularly surprising when you take a group of young men, many of whom have never been out of the country and place them in a foreign culture in a high stress combat situation and give them permission to kill? Horrible yes, surprising no. And covering it up only makes it worse. When it happens, the only correct thing to do is admit, take steps to make sure it never happens again and punish those who crossed the line.

4) I will say I have met some complete yahoo assholes who were military but for the most part the people I know who serve (or served) were some of the brightest, talented and most ethical people I know and I have huge amounts of respect for them and what they do. Doesn't mean I wouldn't be calling for their heads on a platter (in my imaginary role as Empress of the Universe if I found out they were involved in something like Abu Ghraib.

As for the rest - I find the vitriol of those who claim the US (or any country) really is the epitome of evil to be as trivial and baseless in reality as those who crow that the US (or any country) really is the epitome of perfection.

I don't expect them to sadly. I don't expect them to even know who is on all the money or that we still have $2.00 bills. Anyways, my point was that most of our fellow Yanks don't know about some of the more recent (i.e. 60 years) things our government and military has done (at home and abroad). Whether it be Kent State and Japanese-American Internment Camps or Operation Condor and The bombing of the Al-Shifa factory in Sudan, and you shouldn't have to take specialized classes to learn about these things.

Like you said, the United States is not a perfect country or the devil, but we sure as hell don't bother teaching kids why some people think we are. We have a responsibility to own up for our actions like you said, but there are a number of people in important roles that don't want us to, and a section of our populace that thinks the Earth is 6,000 years old and that dinosaurs are a left wing conspiracy. Sadly you can't educate people who chose to be ignorant, and that's one of largest problems we face...

 

[camberiu]

Like you said, the United States is not a perfect country or the devil, but we sure as hell don't bother teaching kids why some people think we are. We have a responsibility to own up for our actions like you said, but there are a number of people in important roles that don't want us to, and a section of our populace that thinks the Earth is 6,000 years old and that dinosaurs are a left wing conspiracy. Sadly you can't educate people who chose to be ignorant, and that's one of largest problems we face...

Let's not put all the blame on the blue collar Bible belt people either. The Japanese internment camps, the Bay of Pigs, the escalation of the US presence in Vietnam, the intervention on the Balkans, the bombing of Aspirine factories in Sundan, the medicine embargo of Iraq and the current drone strikes and torture were/are all done by progressive democratic leaders with full support of the progressive liberal elite. They all choose to have selective memories and to remain ignorant too. The option for ignorance and selective memory cover the entire American political spectrum and pretty much all the social strata.

 

[kerriem]

I find it odd to say the very least, that all of a sudden we are calling Bradley Manning 'she', just because he has decided that he is no longer a 'he'.
I don't buy it.

It isn't up to any of us to 'buy it' or not. Chelsea Manning has told the world that she is a women and has politely requested that people respect her name change and that she would like to referred to with female pronouns. I don't really see why the world would not respect her wishes given that gender identity issues are something many humans experience. It's not like she has just invented it. 'I don't buy it' was (and still is) used against homosexuals to delegitimise homosexuality or make it seem like it is unnatural or not real. When people tell me they're homosexual I wouldn't say "I don't buy it", so why would I say it to someone that tells me they're transgender?

 

[dennisr]

Common folk might be more well intentioned, but the reality is that they know even less. when I first moved to the US, I was living in mid Michigan. Very blue collar area. Folks were really nice (although a bit racist) but they knew nothing about history or world geography. It was right at the beginning of Desert Storm and there were lots of flag waving and patriotic songs. But most of them could not find Iraq on the map if their lives depended on it. I was asked many times at school if Brazil was near the conflict zone (even by some teachers).

To say no one in America gives a shit about what happens when the US involves itself in some BS war is offensive for me. Being a product of the sixties and seventies, nothing could be further from the truth. I was on both sides of the fence in Vietnam. Served four years in Vietnam. What I seen when returning to "The World" blew me away and has probably skewed my world view and people view all my life. Al I can say, after Vietnam, the universal belief was, never would the USA involve itself in some trumped up conflict again. To say no one gives a damn about Iraq, Kuwait and now Syria maybe is categorically wrong.