massive power failure

[Bajo_cero2]

Official statistics lol.... It clearly says that they don't endorse or agree with the statistics they used. Where I live it is clear that things are way more reliable now than during the K years. Everyone I speak to agrees with me. They dont like the price increase but do enjoy the more stable systems.

FYI the ENRE is the it is the public regulating electric entity:

 

[jantango]

 

[ben]

The difference is that the media hide the bad news now.

Yes, let’s pretend you’re not talking to people who actually live here and remember.
I and many people in this discussion were here in all years in your table. It’s not even close.
An incident such as today’s in which the grid goes down nationwide, is the kind of freak accident which does not mean much unless and until it repeats itself. As I noted, I remember a far bigger one that took out almost the entire US and Canadian northeast. It was a freak accident which did not reflect much (or at all) on the administration(s) in place at the time.
The energy situation here has, broadly speaking, become incomparably better than it was. Period.

You want to argue that that could have been done without the price increase? One can speculate ad infinitum, but that is already changing the topic. Or in your case, moving the goal posts. Because while your last post reads -

Is there something I am missing here? The average was higher during the Cristina years in this chart, right? I am misinterpreting this?

Yes, you are missing the point.

- I might remind you that this started with your arguing that:

The electricy shortages are worst with MM even the bill is 3000% higher.

So in the span of a few hours we’ve gone from asserting that “the electricity shortages are worst with Macri” to that they’ve clearly gone down under Macri but that that is “missing the point”. Because... reasons!

To be honest, I’d be more surprised if it was anyone else that was arguing this.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Yes, let’s pretend you’re not talking to people who actually live here and remember.
I and many people in this discussion were here in all years in your table. It’s not even close.
An incident such as today’s in which the grid goes down nationwide, is the kind of freak accident which does not mean much unless and until it repeats itself. As I noted, I remember a far bigger one that took out almost the entire US and Canadian northeast. It was a freak accident which did not reflect much (or at all) on the administration(s) in place at the time.
The energy situation here has, broadly speaking, become incomparably better than it was. Period.

You want to argue that that could have been done without the price increase? One can speculate ad infinitum, but that is already changing the topic. Or in your case, moving the goal posts. Because while your last post reads -

- I might remind you that this started with your arguing that:



So in the span of a few hours we’ve gone from asserting that “the electricity shortages are worst with Macri” to that they’ve clearly gone down under Macri but that that is “missing the point”. Because... reasons!

To be honest, I’d be more surprised if it was anyone else that was arguing this.

The situation is worst now than in 2015. Explain that if you can.

 

[gracielle]

What happens when elevators stop? Are people trapped for hours ?

Without a doubt it affects primarily electrodependent residents.

16 de junio de 2019 • 18:04

Apagón: el susto más grande para los electrodependientes

Apagón: el susto más grande para los electrodependientes

www.lanacion.com.ar

....Mayra is the secretary of the Association of Electrodependent Patients and one of the people who fought for the law that protects people in this situation but that is not always fulfilled.....
.....We told them all to call more companies and Civil Defense to provide them with generators and that they should not let themselves be, and when in doubt get to the hospital in plenty of time", says Mayra.....

....According to data of the association, only in the province of Buenos Aires there are 4000 families with some electrodependent member. "Each company has just 100 generator sets for these situations and about 20 crews that cannot cope," says Hellman.....

Since May 2017, Law 27,351 is in force, which establishes free electricity service for electrodependent persons and the obligation of companies to provide an alternative energy system during blackouts. But that is not always fullfilled. The procedure before the Ministry of Health takes about four months and additional time for the electrical certification of the house, which can cost about 15,000 pesos. That is why many families go unprotected.....

...."We had 14 calls: 12 have been resolved and two are pending," explains Juan Carr, from the Solidarity Network, which early on mobilized their assistance to electrodependents through networks. They made available a telephone, guided families on how and with whom to speak to inform of their situation. And in case it was necessary, they mobilized one of the volunteers who offered to take their generator to the house of the affected family. It was not necessary, because little by little in almost all cases the service was restored.....

.....From the Association of Electrodependent Patients a statement was issued informing that there had been no fatalities during the blackout, as it happened during other blackouts. Although there was much anguish, concern and lack of information. "We did not have to regret any fatal event due to the blackout that affected a large part of the country, leaving us without electricity, by working jointly with the distribution companies and the municipalities. Through the Secretary of Health or Civil Defense, we were able to assist the most critical cases which we were made aware of, safeguarding the integrity of those who depend on electric power to survive. Likewise, we regret the traumatic and uncertain fact that we had to go through this. Although there are still some places where service has not yet been restored, we are being informed by the families as the restoration of their service takes place.

On the other hand, able-bodied residents can choose to utilize the stairs. And those who cannot ambulate on their own are often assisted by family members, friends and/or other residents of the building.

 

[TheDonald]

Radiografía de los cortes de luz en Buenos Aires • EconoJournal

Los cortes de luz han afectado cotidianamente a los usuarios de Edesur y Edenor durante los últimos años, pero ha sido muy poca la información pública disponible sobre el alcance que han tenido los apagones. EconoJournal accedió en exclusiva a estadísticas del Ente Nacional de Regulación de la...

econojournal.com.ar

View attachment 5863

I had no less than 1 day without power at my office since 2016/2018 when we have to go to Court after 20 days without electricity.

The article cited is inaccurate and much of its content is misleading. Although the title of the publication is "Econojournal," it is not written by economists...at least not competent ones.

First, as a person who works with numbers, the spreadsheet says to me that a downward trend was established beginning in the year 2012 and that trend stabilized as of 2015. The two increments upward in 2016 and 2017, based on 2015 results, are not meaningful enough to draw a conclusion. Plus, figures for years 2015, 2016 and 2017 follow the same trend in both spreadsheets. Since these are different utilities, an analyst would have to discard external factors before drawing any conclusion.

Second, in Argentina electrical grid reliability is strongly correlated with weather, or temperature to be more specific. The correlation is not perfect, i.e., 1, but it is close, about .75 would be my guess. Any examination of grid reliability would have to control for weather/temperature. The article acknowledges the influence of weather on grid reliability, but it does not control for it. That's like saying "We know that psychopaths commit more crime," and then taking a crime survey in a neighborhood with a mental hospital, but not adjusting for the population of patients in that hospital.

In layman's terms, we must ascertain whether it was hotter or colder in 2016 and 2017 than 2015? If so, by how much? Special attention would have to be paid to the amplitude of the temperature, i.e., how many days did the temperature in Buenos Aires exceed 35 degrees (or some other threshold that tends to result in grid failure). In the US, we use "Heating Degree Days," to perform just such exercises. A heating oil company can't say, "We sold 10% more product this year than last year." They must adjust their results based on "HDDs." When dealing with phenomena that are strongly correlated to weather, such as electric grid reliability, any study that does not control for temperature is useless.

Third, the article clearly states that the statistics do not distinguish between causes for grid failure. That's like saying "California Wildfires Increase Under Trump." Factually, such a statement may be true. But it is a non sequitur - one does not follow from the other. Without knowing the causes of individual grid failures, and separating them out accordingly, conclusions about grid reliability under Cristina/Macri are inconclusive.

Last, the article is misleading in its implication that the removal of subsidies should have produced an increase in grid reliability. There is only one thing that will produce a sustainable enhancement to grid reliability: utility revenue significantly above costs. Discretionary operating income at the utility would allow for infrastructure improvements and/or modernization. The idiocy of the claim that removal of subsidies should have produced better reliability leads me to believe that the authors of the article are strongly partisan.

Let's take an example. An average home might use 1,000 Kwh (kilowatt hours) per month. Let's say that in 2014, the total cost of 1,000 Kwh was $1.000 pesos. In that year, the government paid 50% through subsidies and the consumer paid 50% from their pocket. So each party paid $500 pesos to the ulitity for 1.000 Kwh in a month. In 2016, Macri removes half the subsidy; he takes the government's share from 50% to 25%, so the consumer now pays 75% of cost. Immediately, the consumer's bill rockets from $500 pesos per month to $750 pesos per month.

But what has happened to revenue at the electricity operator? Revenue has stayed the same - $1.000 pesos per month. Macri's removal of the subsidies has been a non-event for utility revenue. If the utilities weren't generating enough cash flow for modernization before, removal of subsidies won't change that.

Now, let's account for inflation. Same example as above: 1.000 Kwh for $1.000 pesos. Macri cuts the subsidy from 50% to 25%. Consumer share goes from 50% to 75%. But the monthly bill for 1.000 Kwh goes from $1.000 pesos per month to $1.400 pesos per month, in the face of 40% inflation. Let's look what happens to the monthly bills. The government's subsidy at 25% goes from $250 pesos per month to $350 per month (up 40%). The consumer's share goes from $750 pesos per month to $1.050 per month (up 40% also)!

Look at it from the consumer side. The consumer was paying $500 pesos per month. Now with the removal of subsidies plus inflation, the consumer pays $1.050 per month. Electricity bills for consumers have more than doubled, but with removal of subsidies and inflation, the electric operator is getting the same revenue. Now, consider this go-nowhere treadmill with 3 years of inflation.

Electricity provision in Argentina will always be unreliable until consumers are willing to pay the cost of production plus an increment for upgrade/modernization. That would likely mean monthly utility bills on par with the western world, say $100US per month.

To conclude: the article cited is not written by economists. I would characterize it as misleading, inaccurate and strongly partisan. I feel the title of the publication, "Econojournal" is deceptive.

 

[gracielle]

Electricity provision in Argentina will always be unreliable until consumers are willing to pay the cost of production plus an increment for upgrade/modernization. That would likely mean monthly utility bills on par with the western world, say $100US per month.

To conclude: the article cited is not written by economists. I would characterize it as misleading, inaccurate and strongly partisan. I feel the title of the publication, "Econojournal" is deceptive.

hear, hear....

 

[sts7049]

Yes, you are missing the point.
There was a crisis in 2013 because the electric companies were not investing in infrastructure as the contracts demanded. She should cancel those contracts but, instead, CFK decided to invest public found in improving the electrical system because the goals could be got faster and she left her Presidency with 33.3 with MM has 37 with less demand even the excuse for the 3000% price increase was to improve the electrical system. Instead his achievement was the first black out.

i'd love to see what evidence you have that macri's policy or whatever is directly responsible for the "first of a lifetime" type of failure.

i'll wait.

 

[sergio]

Didn't some people get stuck in trains and subways or weren't they running at that hour?

 

[gracielle]

Didn't some people get stuck in trains and subways or weren't they running at that hour?

There was no subway/pre-metro services at 7:07am. Subway services on Sundays begin at 8:00am and Pre-metro at 8:09, 8:31 and 8:39am.

Horarios

Consultá todos los horarios de las líneas de subte y premetro.

www.buenosaires.gob.ar

It appears that no injuries/fatalities were reported by the railway lines and/or by those passengers who were involved in the emergency evacuations.

16 June 2019

Los trenes operan con servicios reducidos y se normalizan las líneas de subte por el apagón masivo

Las líneas de colectivos circulan normalmente y los aeropuertos de Aeroparque y Ezeiza lo hacen con generadores propios

www.infobae.com

As a result of the total blackout, the Roca, Mitre, Urquiza and Sarmiento train lines suffered sustained interruptions in their service. A Twitter user - the social network where the hashtags #sinluz and # blackout multiplied the complaints about the lack of electricity - shared a video from the station Gerli Roca line, where the train stopped and passengers had to walk on the side of the tracks in the dark.

https://twitter.com/Bubu95890845/media

Photos of:
(1) Passengers departing from the train because of the blackout....
(2) blackout.... stranded between Lomas and Temperley