Move to Buenos Aires?

[nicoenarg]

Nor for that matter did anyone open other peoples saftey deposit boxes and steal their gold.

Yup, that's exactly what Nahuel meant by the sarcastic comment.

 

[ElQueso]

Arlean:

I apologize if I came on a bit condescending. I went back and read what I wrote and while it may have seemed such, I didn't mean it that way.

When I read your orignal post, it seemed like you were hearing a rumor. I didn't realize it was from first-hand accounts. I wouldn't doubt at all that it happened, it just sounded to me real similar to the results of the currency devaluation itself, almost as a simile to the government literally robbing the people.

As far as FDR - I'm not saying he was all bad, but he was definitely socialist-leaning, and there are many people (myself included) who think that what he did (not just the gold but other things) actually prolonged the great Depression.

I'm a Libertarian and think that a lot of what the folks in power in the early and mid-1900s did caused a lot of problems that are being manifested in the States currently.

As far as Paraguay, I completely agree with what you have heard. Prices are roughly 1/2 to 1/3 what they are here in BA. You can buy a literal mansion there for $100K. I see Paraguay as a land of oppotunity for people with money - and it doesn't take much money to be included in that (I certainly don't have much!).

The labor laws are more relaxed (although it's still Latin America), personal income tax doesn't exist (although when paying in the white there are a few other liabilities companies have to pay for, but not exhorbitant) and companies pay 10% unless they take money out of the country and then they pay a total of 20%. Import tariffs are much cheaper than here. Paraguay has officially denied something like 1000 Mercosur regulations that regulate import tariffs, in an attempt to bring in foreign investment.

I had a meeting with the president of the Senate four years ago when I was there looking at property and such, in a thought to possibly move there. Fairly easy access (gotten through the real estate agent I was working with). Nice guy, down to earth. He said that foreigners there often have a somehwat special status as far as their investments go because Paraguay recognizes that they desperately need foreign investment to make the country move forward.

Unfortunately, the people of Paraguay are very poor. There is a large amount of money in Paraguay, but most of it is tied up in a relatively small percentage of rich people who still look at life as a sort of feudal society.

My wife comes from near the city of Concepcion, the "State" (called departamento) of Concepcion being the poorest in the country. One of the only reasons we haven't moved to Paraguay is that my wife has a lot of bad memories related to living in her own country as a poor person. One example, she worked as a maid in Asuncion for a year before coming here. The patrona literally told her one day "it's a shame slavery doesn't exist any more, but just wait, it will come again."

So even Paraguay has its own problems, but I have to think that for someone earning wages in Dollars it is just ripe with opportunities. And they actually LOVE foreigners, particularly Americans.

 

[Nahuel]

It's the first time i hear about safe deposit boxes being opened and gold taken away that is not about a bank robery of some sort. (Check the "boqueteros robery in belgrano", quite an amazing movie-like story)

There are a lot of comments here, so i'll try tu sum up...

For the person that their ffiends debt was also "pesified", i'm glad for them, it wasn't the case of my family or family friends.

I hate pidgeons, winged rats.

From my senior 2001 class, we were near 90, 7 parents died in the early months of 2002, due to heart failures (like my dad, 42 years old, massive heart attack), one-month-bursting cancers or burn-outs. The situation was extremely stressfull to live a normal life.

Elqueso, porperty here is still extremely cheap compared to the US, but not in Buenos Aires capital. My mom house is in Castelar, a decent suburb 30km away from the Capital, the property has 600 m2 with 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms livingroom, and a big big backyard and is around 75k. A "mansion" there would go to 150K (U$D). The capital district lives in a bubble where a 2 bedroom ap can cost a gorillon pesos in the right neighbourhood.

(sorry for the grammar and spelling, i don't understand this browser enough to change the languaje on the spellcheck)

 

[ElQueso]

Elqueso, porperty here is still extremely cheap compared to the US, but not in Buenos Aires capital. My mom house is in Castelar, a decent suburb 30km away from the Capital, the property has 600 m2 with 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms livingroom, and a big big backyard and is around 75k. A "mansion" there would go to 150K (U$D). The capital district lives in a bubble where a 2 bedroom ap can cost a gorillon pesos in the right neighbourhood.

3 bedrooms doesn't quite make a mansion (I'm not saying you said it was, but I'm just commenting about relativity). 600 sm property is not small exactly, but it sure isn't big. I'm also betting the rooms are not very big, but I could be wrong, not having seen it. I have seen MANY houses that sit on a property just like that, in Tortuguitas, in which lived many of my sister-in-law's classmates, being middle class. I have to tell you - people in the 5th ward in Houston who had houses had houses bigger than that.

Hell, my first house in Houston was three bedrooms, was well built, and I bought if for $37K, twenty years ago. It was about 150 sm (roughly 1600 sqft). I know someone from that neighborhood who sold their house last year for 60K.

My second (and last) house in Houston was 3000 sqft (a little less than 300 sm). It had 5 bedrooms, a good-sized kitchen, a dining room, a huge den, a three car garage, and was on a corner. I bought it in 1998 for $83K. It's now worth about $130K. Not a mansion either.

I lived just past Tortuguitas for two years, about kilometer 38 on the Panamericana highway, Ramal Pilar. The house was 240 sm, two story, 5 bedrooms (including the maid's quarters which admitedly was smaller than the other rooms, which had its own bathroom and about as much space in the bedroom as many normal bedroom apartments I've seen here in the city), a HUGE kitchen (really, a lot of wasted space - they could have done better) a nice-sized dining room, a nice-sized living room, a back patio that extended the length of the house and turned the corner with the house, which was L-shaped. Built-in parrilla. A pool in the backyard. The property had 1000 sm.

The owners were trying to sell that house when we moved for $375K (USD). I don't consider that house a mansion, not anywhere near. Granted the price is more expensive because it's in a closed neighborhood.

There were middle class homes and bigger outside of the closed neighborhoods that were around, as well. Not one of them could have been over 250 sm. I saw prices there ranging from $150K to $250K (USD). Again, not mansions.

But there were TONS of poor houses. Concrete buildings that looked half finished and had a lot of people living in them. Dirt roads. A lot of poverty.

A very specific house that I'm talking about in Asuncion is 480 sm (a little over 4800 sqft), about 4 blocks off Mariscal Lopez, about a quarter mile from downtown. It sits on about 2000 sm of property. It has 6 bedrooms, a dining room, big kitchen, big living room, a family room and 5 bathrooms (three in-suite). It has a house with one bedroom with eating room, a bathroom and living space in the back corner of the property for servants. It goes for $100K.

I would about consider that a mansion, though of small size.

 

[Nahuel]

3 bedrooms doesn't quite make a mansion (I'm not saying you said it was, but I'm just commenting about relativity). 600 sm property is not small exactly, but it sure isn't big. I'm also betting the rooms are not very big, but I could be wrong, not having seen it. I have seen MANY houses that sit on a property just like that, in Tortuguitas, in which lived many of my sister-in-law's classmates, being middle class. I have to tell you - people in the 5th ward in Houston who had houses had houses bigger than that.

Hell, my first house in Houston was three bedrooms, was well built, and I bought if for $37K, twenty years ago. It was about 150 sm (roughly 1600 sqft). I know someone from that neighborhood who sold their house last year for 60K.

My second (and last) house in Houston was 3000 sqft (a little less than 300 sm). It had 5 bedrooms, a good-sized kitchen, a dining room, a huge den, a three car garage, and was on a corner. I bought it in 1998 for $83K. It's now worth about $130K. Not a mansion either.

I lived just past Tortuguitas for two years, about kilometer 38 on the Panamericana highway, Ramal Pilar. The house was 240 sm, two story, 5 bedrooms (including the maid's quarters which admitedly was smaller than the other rooms, which had its own bathroom and about as much space in the bedroom as many normal bedroom apartments I've seen here in the city), a HUGE kitchen (really, a lot of wasted space - they could have done better) a nice-sized dining room, a nice-sized living room, a back patio that extended the length of the house and turned the corner with the house, which was L-shaped. Built-in parrilla. A pool in the backyard. The property had 1000 sm.

The owners were trying to sell that house when we moved for $375K (USD). I don't consider that house a mansion, not anywhere near. Granted the price is more expensive because it's in a closed neighborhood.

There were middle class homes and bigger outside of the closed neighborhoods that were around, as well. Not one of them could have been over 250 sm. I saw prices there ranging from $150K to $250K (USD). Again, not mansions.

But there were TONS of poor houses. Concrete buildings that looked half finished and had a lot of people living in them. Dirt roads. A lot of poverty.

A very specific house that I'm talking about in Asuncion is 480 sm (a little over 4800 sqft), about 4 blocks off Mariscal Lopez, about a quarter mile from downtown. It sits on about 2000 sm of property. It has 6 bedrooms, a dining room, big kitchen, big living room, a family room and 5 bathrooms (three in-suite). It has a house with one bedroom with eating room, a bathroom and living space in the back corner of the property for servants. It goes for $100K.

I would about consider that a mansion, though of small size.

You are still naming places that are known for beign expensive, Pilar and all the northrend part of Buenos Aires.

And yes, Asuncion is still cheaper than Buenos Aires, but i wouldn't live there in a millon years, although i go there quite often for working reasons.

 

[citygirl]

There are plenty of very expensive houses near Castelaar. I know of more than a few properties that aren't mansions that are on the market for 500,000 USD or more in these areas (and I live around here).

 

[DontMindMe]

My second (and last) house in Houston was 3000 sqft (a little less than 300 sm). It had 5 bedrooms, a good-sized kitchen, a dining room, a huge den, a three car garage, and was on a corner. I bought it in 1998 for $83K. It's now worth about $130K. Not a mansion either.

Um, did we live in the same Houston? If your house was inside the loop, tell me where so I can buy it and flip it. Two bedroom one bath bungalows pre-renovation are going for around 200-300K now in areas like the Heights and Montrose...

(Yes, I'm way off topic, but so is everyone else now.)

Anyway, the OP should come. I hope one day to be able to live in an expat bubble somewhere mostly detached from the country's economic reality, making a currency that lets me live like a baller, knowing my company will fly me out if things get crazy. Two years of being broke in BA was character building to say the least, but it's not an experience I really wish to repeat. (Can't help but laugh when I read about people just now discovering Día supermarkets...) Not sure exactly when I'll be back in BA or for how long, but I know I will be, and man I wish it could be under OP's circumstances.

 

[ElQueso]

[quote name='Don'tMindMe']Um, did we live in the same Houston? If your house was inside the loop, tell me where so I can buy it and flip it. Two bedroom one bath bungalows pre-renovation are going for around 200-300K now in areas like the Heights and Montrose...[/quote]

Wasn't inside the loop, I wouldn't want to live there. It was around Willowbrook Mall, Northwest suburbs.

 

[BXpat]

What a thread. Please continue, this is all very interesting.

 

[arlean]

PhilipDT, It is not lack of concern for the kids. I heard that a lot of kids disappeared back then. That isn't new information. I don't know if anyone knows what happened to some of them, for sure, but I never heard about doves.

It may seem naive but there are a lot of strange rituals that go on now in the world--probably always have. In light of that fact, it might be naive to assume that it did NOT happen! (giggle) But thanks for educating me in this case.