New Dollar Restrictions

ElQueso said:
Don't make visa runs. You're not doing anything except putting yourself in the bull's eye of immigrations. There's a whole thread with the participation a respected Argentine immigration and citizenship attorney (bajo cero) that spells out why in detail.

If you need money from outside the country, there are options (Xoom being the easiest) to get cash from your foreign bank account, converted into pesos at a great rate. In the private cuevas you can get dollars, euros, etc on receipt of your transfer. It's more difficult to find the contacts when you get away from Xoom and into the private cuevas, but well worth it because there effectively are no limits on what you can send (there are, but most people don't need to send $100K in a month...).

As to the credit card thing - I didn't have time to read more than the article posted, which didn't offer too much in the way of explanation, other than to say it's not a restriction of the user, but rather the credit card companies. Seems the same to me either way - it's going to impact the user.

One comment I have about international credit card purchases though, related to direct experience:

My wife and I recently drove to Paraguay and stayed there for about 10 days. While we were there, I mostly used my US credit card as the official rate is great and I didn't have to use so much cash. I could also pull out dollars at will from the ATMs (many of them, anyway) using my debit card.

My wife went to a kiosko there (called dispensas in Paraguay) at one point and bought a few things with her Argentine AMEX credit card issued through Santander Rio. The total bill was 21,000 guaranies, or about $4.75 USD.

Upon returning to BA, we received the bank statement from Santander Rio, which included the charges for the credit card to be paid off or rolled into the line of credit to be paid on a monthly basis in installment payments.

We saw the one charge made in Paraguay. It was listed in USD currency. My wife went to pay her balance for the credit card and found that she could not pay that one item with the rest. According to the clerk there (and I'm getting this through my wife - it's her first credit card and credit cards here are different in how they are approached than in the US so she may have some confusion about this and I can't help her from my previous experience - I need to go to the bank and find out if this all is real, what they told her), she could not pay that item with pesos because foreign charges are converted to dollars and must be paid in dollars.

She had a $5 bill left over from our trip in her wallet and she pulled it out to pay the amount. She was then informed that the minimum dollar payment/deposit allowed is $50 USD!

I don't know what in all of that is official policy and what is Santander Rio's.

So, the article mentions that foreign charges are converted (but they don't explicitly say to the peso) at the official rate. Somehow, through all those conversions, we ended up with a straight conversion from guaranies to dollars at the direct guarani to dollar rate with no loss, even of a few cents, by my calculation.

Strange, all of it...

ElQueso - We have Santander Rio and have used our Credit Cards several times to pay for things in US Dollars. We pay our accounts online and at the end of the month we convert the amount of dollars into the exchange rate that the bank is offering that day and we pay it off in pesos. I have no idea why they would have told your wife that??! I think she just got unlucky with some guy who didnt know what he was talking about!
 
PhilinBSAS said:
happy to sit back and consider otherwise I have no reason to agree with your assertion about a "liberty" which no country anywhere recognises

The United Kingdom to which you have referred have enshrined in law the Europoean Convention on Human Rights.

Protocal 4, Article 2, line 2

" Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own"

http://www.hri.org/docs/ECHR50.html

And as far as I know there is no legal requirement to have a passport to leave the UK although in practice it would be difficult to do so.

Then there is the American Convention on Human Rights

Article 22. Freedom of Movement and Residence

"2. Every person has the right lo leave any country freely, including his own."

http://www.cidh.org/Basicos/English/Basic3.American%20Convention.htm

This was ratified by Argentina in August 1984
 
You certainly have a human right to leave and travel. :p Perhaps it's not written in the Constitution, but it's a liberty that isn't restricted by the Constitution either. Do we need governmental permission to eat and breath as well? Only countries like North Korea keep their citizens behind walls to the outside world. Nobody should be held prisoner in their house, in their state/region, or in their country.

Of course if you don't meet requirements to travel, or you're wanted by the police, then you're not going anywhere.
 
solerboy said:


The United Kingdom to which you have referred have enshrined in law the Europoean Convention on Human Rights.

Protocal 4, Article 2, line 2

" Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own"

http://www.hri.org/docs/ECHR50.html

And as far as I know there is no legal requirement to have a passport to leave the UK although in practice it would be difficult to do so.

Then there is the American Convention on Human Rights

Article 22. Freedom of Movement and Residence

"2. Every person has the right lo leave any country freely, including his own."

http://www.cidh.org/Basicos/English/Basic3.American%20Convention.htm

This was ratified by Argentina in August 1984

Thanks for educating me. My bad. :)

So one can leave one's own country without needing permission this clearly says but no right to a passport so end up at Charles de Gaulle airport like that bloke did :) who couldnt get into France and couldnt go back either

Even with a passport not convinced how you back up assertion to buy dollars is a liberty? (or is the right to dollars like the right to breath hahahah)

If you can then more power to your elbow and dont linger on here go head off to court and get a declaration since liberties only exist where those jealous enough to defend them and seek to exercise

"God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it." Daniel Webster, speech (June 3, 1834)


oops just read on a bit more .... Art 2.3 No restrictions shall be placed on these rights other than in accordance with law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety or the maintenance of public order for the protection of health or morals or for the protection of rights and freedoms of others ... and Art 2.4 the rights set out in para 1 may also be subject in particular areas to restrictions imposed by law and justified by the public interest in a democratic country

European convention and similar quoted in Hurst Hannum "The Right to leave and return in international law and practice" found here http://alturl.com/8dywq

seems the bar is set a lot higher than the unqualified "liberty" you feel is in your grasp

how silly we are to think that any "human right" recognised by a government isnt qualified in some way to deal with the pressing and overriding needs of the state

better perhaps to cancel that radio-taxi to present your deposition to Congress

Plenty of grounds for a Government to find a reason here to restrict you from leaving .. or then happy to see you leave with empty pockets!
 
PhilinBSAS said:
Even with a passport not convinced how you back up assertion to buy dollars is a liberty? (or is the right to dollars like the right to breath hahahah)

I think people are a little too hung up on dollars.

But try travelling the world on a fist full of Argentine Pesos.

I dont necessarily disagree with all the Governments financial and monetary policies, I just think they have the wrong approach, and their controls tend to be counter productive.

Its the law of unforseen consequences.

They need to do much more stress testing of their ideas before putting them into action.
 
Eclair said:
Only countries like North Korea keep their citizens behind walls to the outside world.
There are other countrys besides North Korea that require goverment permision to leave, Cuba comes to mind right away as you must have a "Exit Permit" in order to leave the country, and if you are deemed of value to the state your permit will be denied. It would be intresting if to see a list of countrys that require state permision to exit, either oficially or via passport non issuance.
 
solerboy said:
But try travelling the world on a fist full of Argentine Pesos.

I dont necessarily disagree with all the Governments financial and monetary policies, I just think they have the wrong approach, and their controls tend to be counter productive.

Its the law of unforseen consequences.

They need to do much more stress testing of their ideas before putting them into action.

No chance to travel the World I agree but the UK Post Office tells me it will accept unlimited Arg$ to change to £. but not good exchange rate.

Havnt stress tested that however.

In fact isnt that what the whole of Argentina is going through at the moment? Stress testing I mean.

Argentina is and has been for a long time a fascinating laboratory for applied economics but I agree it isnt much fun being one of the laboratory rats!

BTW I was busy editing my post when when you replied - my bad again but you might want to see what is said about so called "unqualified" human rights.
 
A few comments.

- I'm getting 25% profit with blackmarket $ rate via £ allowing commission. Venezuela is ~35%.

- UK Statutory instruments are marine law technically.

- Protectionist Governments think they can't beat the market. Even Jesus couldn't do that:
http://www.iamthewitness.com/books/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/The.History.of.the.Money.Changers.htm
It will ome in the end
- Mecca was established as a safe place to trade

- typically Governments aren't in control of the currency actually. In the UK it's the BoE, in the USA it's the 'Fed'. Here?

- To compare just pick a commodity at a forex site as the currency you have and compare the graphs between the various fiat
 
Afip only pays out 8 million daily to people traveling abroad and before 34 million

Now it could be me but if the same amount of people travel it means they pay out only 25% of the amount before
 
Back
Top