Obamacare: Say goodbye to Grandma and the grandkids!

[Ries]

There are many Canadians who go to the US for care they can't get in Canada or have to wait many months to receive. It isn't amusing.

Another myth, propagated by the right wing and insurance companies.

according to this study,
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2002/may/phantoms_in_the_snow.php

The number of Canadians seeking health care in the USA is so small as to be almost unmeasurable- 20, out of 18,000 interviewed.

Another outright LIE that is spread about is that anybody, including illegal aliens, gets free health care in the USA at emergency rooms.

It is true that if you show up with a gaping wound, a broken arm, or a high fever from a communicable disease, chances are you can get treated- but not at every hospital.

Yes, there is a law that says hospitals must treat emergencies regardless of ability to pay- but many hospitals simply ignore this law- after all, what are homeless people, or illegal aliens going to do- sue them?
Second, many hospitals will actually hire a taxi or van to dump indigent would be patients at the doorstep of the closest public or catholic hospital. So yes, you may get treated- hours later, or you may die on the way.

http://www.naturalnews.com/023751_hospital_hospitals_homeless.html

Third, the first thing they do is ask EVERYBODY for ID and Insurance. If you have neither, they will still make up, and send out, a bill. Just being poor doesnt mean you dont get a bill.
Certainly, there are people who lie about addresses, make up names, and claim not to have ID. But these sleazebags are just as likely to be US citizens as illegal aliens.

Many, many, illegal aliens, however, actually tell the truth, get bills, and attempt to pay them. I have personally known a fair amount of illegal aliens, living in LA and Washington State. Most want to be legal, honest and law abiding. Many end up buying houses, or cars, and the last thing they want is ruined credit. Which is what you get if you dont pay your hospital bills.

So the truth is, if you try, on purpose, to screw the hospital, by lying and not paying, you can get treated for free, no matter where you are born.
But there is no get out of jail free card for illegal aliens.

And then, there are the many types of health problems that you cant get treated for free, no matter what. You can walk into an emergency room and get stitches. But try walking in and asking for a hip replacement, chemo for breast cancer, bi-weekly dialysis, cosmetic surgery for a hairlip, surgery for chronic back pain, chiropractic adjustments for your neck, or a hundred other medical services that people with insurance get.
Aint gonna happen.

Of course, this is equally true if you are a 10 generation, ancestors came over on the Mayflower american, as if you are an Irish college kid who overstayed her visa. (lots of Irish illegal immigrants in Boston and NYC, working construction or as nannies)

In america, if you dont have the do-re-me, you die on the street.
Try getting "free" treatment for mental health problems, drug addiction, or long term care.


The american health care system is broken, plain and simple, and it lets poor people die every day, although not before sucking every dime they have out of them. Its barbaric, and uncivilized, and it needs to change.

 

[citygirl]

How much worse can it get?

Want to know what's wrong with the system? Well, let's look at case in point. I have 2 friends, both self-employed, work hard. They CAN'T afford health insurance. It would be thousands of dollars a month. So they hope and they pray they don't get sick.

Or my father who has health-insurance. Good one. He went to the emergency room 2 nights ago and sat for 2 hours without anyone seeing him b/c they were too busy filling out paperwork.

Or my friend that has done all the legwork for a business but can't quit his job b/c he can't afford to self-insure his family.

Or the fact that I had surgery when I was covered by insurance in the US, they screwed up the billing and I spent 2 years fighting the system and debt collectors who came after me for thousands of dollars I didn't owe. And if I hadn't been a fairly savy person, with full records and documentations, I would have been absolutely screwed and it would have gone on my credit rating as an unpaid debt.

The system doesn't work. Period. Full stop.

 

[Dudester]

And you seriously think the government is going to make it all better?

What's the alternative option brainiac? I want to thank you big time Steve because it's deep thinker's like you that force me to stick to my goals of living out of the USA at least 90% of the time (Paris - done, BA - working on it). I have a business that I can't export out or I would have been long gone (maybe when the Clinton/Lewinski witch hunt started - Hypocrite Newt Gingrich is going after Clinton same time he's having his own affair on the side - or maybe sooner. Daddy Bush was a very good reason to leave with the disgusting LA riot's and all).

Will the Government make it better? Just extend medicare down (simple as boiling water Steve - Medicare works well enough amigo) - and see what happens. ANYTHING to make all those effing insurance companies get flushed down the giant toilet. The ones that MURDER people through denial of care, testing, or treatment and rip all of us off so greatly - ruining many many lives. It's time the Government put a stop to all this big business abuse and nonsense (and that goes way beyond health care, Banks and many giant corps can use some toilet flushing too) The whole thing is just SO SICKENING and shows the true colors of the real United States of America - For the Super Rich, Military Industrial Complex, and Giant Multi National Corporations sucking the blood from the upper to lower middle classes - all this sh*t is costing us a fortune. >Blank< the USA !!! Dudester

PS Oh , BTW, you want to deny emergency Health Care to "illegal aliens" (your term - I don't use it)? So what do you do if one gets brought into the emergency room after a car accident and he needs medical help or he dies? Throw him in a giant dumpster like a dead dog? Is that your solution Steve. What do you want to do with all of these undocumented people, the ones that come here cause there's obviously a lot of big business that likes cheap labor. They wouldn't come here if there wasn't any work or money to be made. One thing you might wanna think about. Round them up and bus them all back and watch how fast greatly insulted Mexicans(and other groups) form terrorist groups (inside and outside the USA) and we live in a land of daily bombings all over the place - nowhere will be safe. Thanks but I don't need to live in a world like that - I'd like to go to the mall without exploding.

 

[Ries]

I am proud to say my ancestors were "illegal aliens"- sneaky draft dodging anarchist Finns, who went to Canada, then snuck across the border to the Five Towns, in northern Minnesota, in the early years of the 20th Century.

This was pretty common then, as dumb Scandahoovians who didnt speak english were not welcome.

Same thing with my wife- her aunt Clara was hand carried across the bridge at Niagara falls, as a tiny baby, in about 1920, because there was a quota for jews in the USA, so a cousin who was already here snuck her in.

Both families, of course, went on to become tax paying american citizens, and, hopefully, contributed a bit to the country.

So my sympathies are clearly with treating everyone who is sick or needs health care, regardless of legal status, income, or race, religion, or skin color.

What if an illegal alien has TB, or Grippe A?
Do you just turn em away, and let them spread the disease?

It is inhuman to let people die because they dont have money.

 

[gusgutier]

I am proud to say my ancestors were "illegal aliens"- sneaky draft dodging anarchist Finns, who went to Canada, then snuck across the border to the Five Towns, in northern Minnesota, in the early years of the 20th Century.

This was pretty common then, as dumb Scandahoovians who didnt speak english were not welcome.

Same thing with my wife- her aunt Clara was hand carried across the bridge at Niagara falls, as a tiny baby, in about 1920, because there was a quota for jews in the USA, so a cousin who was already here snuck her in.

Both families, of course, went on to become tax paying american citizens, and, hopefully, contributed a bit to the country.

So my sympathies are clearly with treating everyone who is sick or needs health care, regardless of legal status, income, or race, religion, or skin color.

What if an illegal alien has TB, or Grippe A?
Do you just turn em away, and let them spread the disease?

It is inhuman to let people die because they dont have money.

Just a pseudo marxist comment from a foreigner (excuse me). May be a little number of issues can be outside the capital market laws. One of this can be health, also in a capitalist society .

 

[redrum]

WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW... I am blown away !!!

I CANNOT effing believe you are falling for this b--- s--- kindergarden level PROPOGANDA. You guys will believe ANYTHING !! John Kerry goes to Vietnam and gets shot at, W NEVER even sets foot in Vietnam but he's the war hero and Kerry's the lying coward - Just Amazing, they really need to test people before letting them vote.......

Oh, and just a FYI thing, Grandma ALREADY has Universal Health Care, it's called MEDICARE and it starts in the US when a person turns 65, been around for decades.... heard of it? Didn't know they were killing Grandmas all these years but if Rush Limbaugh tells you so it must be true .......

1984? George Orwell? - Naw, that's DICK "I'm too busy to go to Vietnam and fight for my country 5 deferments" CHENEY, the EVIL WIZARD - look into it.....

Dudester/Wineguy999

sounds like you guys are drinking the obama kool aid.

guys in all seriousness, the first step that we all need to take is to break the conditioning of the false left vs right paradigm. I have said this before in previous posts, there is no difference between the democratic and republican parties aside from political ideologies to which only lip service is paid. In short, they both work for the same team i.e. goldman sachs and/or other crooked wall street bankers, businessmen and old school money(domestic and European).

**it's like a don king boxing match. He controls both fighters**

These days, a candidate does not get the dem or repub party nomination unless he/she is already a member of the team. they control both candidates. i was against Bush the same way i am against Obama - because neither one of them work for the American people. it's all political theater. it's a show put on for the benefit of the american people in order to perpetuate the illusion of democracy, which we all know is a sham. think about this. hasn't anybody noticed that no matter which party gets elected to office that nothing ever really changes. all we do is move back and forth like a ball on a tennis court. This has been happening for decades.

Please do not get caught up into thinking that obama bashing is republican propaganda. That is EXACTLY what they want you to think. They WANT you to be caught up in the midst of the false left/right paradigm and there you will stay for years on end, never knowing the truth that the game rigged.

*********************

In terms of the health care bill - A pattern has quickly emerged in Washington where yet another bill is being rammed down our throats. Another bill that nobody is reading - another bill that must be passed in a ridiculously short period of time - another bill where FEAR is being used as the major push for reform. One thing is clear - more government control and regulation is the LAST thing that a free society needs. The government is inept. The government is corrupt. The government JUST KEEPS GETTING BIGGER AND BIGGER.


"I look at this health care plan and I see nothing that is about health or about care. What I see is a bureaucratic nightmare, senator. Medicaid is broke, Medicare is broke, Social Security is broke and you want us to believe that a government that can't even run a cash for clunkers program is going to run one-seventh of our U.S. economy? No sir, no"

Audience Shouts Down Sebelius, Specter at Health Care Town Hall in Philadelphia
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/200...s-specter-health-care-town-hall-philadelphia/

"How Can You Manage Health Care When You Can't Manage Cash For Clunkers?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpt8BzyFpa4&feature=related

 

[harpo]

And you seriously think the government is going to make it all better?

Yes, just like in every other civilized country.

 

[bigbadwolf]

Yes, just like in every other civilized country.

In every civilised country. But the US is not civilised. The government is a front for private interests. And as Redrum pointed out, both parties are equally assiduous in pandering to these interests. So don't wait with bated breath for Obama to come out with anything bold and startling. He's another crook.

 

[harpo]

In every civilised country. But the US is not civilised. The government is a front for private interests. And as Redrum pointed out, both parties are equally assiduous in pandering to these interests. So don't wait with bated breath for Obama to come out with anything bold and startling. He's another crook.

But a crook with a health care plan. Unless, along with Steveinbsas, you think the whole concept is some kind of socialist plot, I would suggest you support any attempt to bring this in, no matter how flawed. The next opportunity could be decades away.

 

[jp]

Unless you consider ever piece of policy and legislation which positively affected the lives of US citizens an accidental by-product of work done on behalf of private interests, you could also conclude that sometimes the government acts on behalf of its people.

Reform rarely happens smoothly - one giant leap from an intolerable situation, landing gracefully upon the optimum solution, to admiring cheers and plaudits from all. Its painful, slow, grinding, people fall foul of reform, some try and grease the wheels for personal gain, others try and impede its progress to protect their assets.

Yet you only really have to look at history to see what the process of reform can achieve given time. Or do you think society has remained static? No advances in education, healthcare, security, civil rights and liberties, economic stability etc?

I'm not sure why people assume obama was going to turn politics on its head and his presidency was somehow going to be unburdened by 200 years of social and economic inertia. Society isn't going to painlessly change overnight, but pretending its incapable of change is fantasy.