Occupy Wallstreet... and Bs As?

[French jurist]

but what if they lose money? They're out of luck...

Not totally -> Tax payers (individual profit, mutual risks).

A few recent facts tend to prove this assertion.

 

[gsi16386]

Rock on dude....go out and protest, it's your constitutional right and I respect that.

 

[Ries]

What I have heard is a disgust for hedge fund managers, over 25 of whom made over $1 billion dollars each last year, scamming the tax code and paying taxes at a rate lower than a bus driver or a plumber pays.

Are you familiar with the tax code? They pay lower taxes because they pay capital gains taxes, not income tax...it's two different things.

By offering a lower capital gains tax it encourages investment. Not only that, but they put their capital at risk...shouldn't the reward be higher? They're willing to risk what they've earned to invest in you and the future of America, but what if they lose money? They're out of luck...

You as a worker cannot lose money, you continue to accrue income so you pay a higher rate. Seems pretty fair to me...

I, as a worker, long ago was forced by that very tax code to become a corporation- so, yes, I know quite a bit about the tax code.

There is NO proof that lower capital gains taxes encourages investment.

Historically, some of the highest investment years in american industry, infrastructure, and real property have occured during times of HIGH taxes, both capital gains and income.

Taxes in the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's were all significantly higher than now- up to 90%- and investment in real things was much higher.

There is also no reason, except for high priced lobbying, for the Hedge fund SALARIES to be classed as capital gains- its a loophole, plain and simple.

The average Hedge Fund owner employs at most a dozen servants- they do not invest that billion a year in factories, jobs, or even give it away for education or culture. All it does is get invested in more fantasy swindles.

But hey- I am a reasonable guy- I would be very happy if we just went back to the tax levels and policies of that right wing demigod, Ronald Reagan. I mean, he was no Commie or Socialist, right?
And he was quite happy with tax rates of 50% for the highest bracket, and a capital gains rate of 29.19%.

So these occupy Wall Street guys are actually Reagan Republicans.

 

[gsi16386]

Not totally -> Tax payers (individual profit, mutual risks).

A few recent facts tend to prove this assertion.

Not for hedge funds....They bailed out the banks (which I agree is complete bs)

I myself am a hedge fund manager and trust me, no one's going to bail me out if I go under and I wouldn't expect anyone to bail me out.

 

[PhilipDT]

Not for hedge funds....They bailed out the banks (which I agree is complete bs)

I myself am a hedge fund manager and trust me, no one's going to bail me out if I go under and I wouldn't expect anyone to bail me out.

Lets go occupy gsi's calle!!!! Andemos!!!!

 

[steveinbsas]

I havent seen a single sign in any of the pictures that says anything about "the belief that the resources of the world are rightfully owned by everyone equally and should be shared as such...regardless of individual ability or effort...simply on the basis of need".

What I have heard is a disgust for the speculative derivatives and mortgage backed securities swindles that drove the entire world economy into recession.

What I have heard is a disgust for those same bankers giving themselves multi million dollar bonuses, with taxpayer bailout money, while their firms lost money.

What I have heard is a disgust for hedge fund managers, over 25 of whom made over $1 billion dollars each last year, scamming the tax code and paying taxes at a rate lower than a bus driver or a plumber pays.

What I have heard is a disgust for making teachers, policemen, and firemen the scapegoats for the failed gambles of billionaires, whilst said billionaires, like for instance the multi-bankrupt Donald Trump, continue to be rich, pay low taxes, and get government subsidies for their projects.

Marx has been conspicuously absent from these protests, although his spirit does live on in the huge government giveaways to oil companies, defense contractors, banks, insurance companies, and hedge funds- they are all getting government mandated redistribution of MY wealth...

I wasn't referring to Marx. I was referring to Bradleyhale (I didn't want to be a thug and quote him directly, but now I have to do so):

"It's called a resource-based economy. It prioritizes meeting people's needs and solving human problems for the sake of humanity and not for profit. If you're interested in understanding it in-depth, I suggest the documentary "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward." The present paradigm profits off of human needs and problems. Sick and dying people are good for the GDP. Wars are good for the GDP. Using cheap fossil fuels to pollute the air is good for the GDP. We have the resources to feed everyone, to house everyone, to provide water for everyone, to provide medical care for everyone, yet none of that can happen under the current paradigm unless someone can make a buck. You should probably consider spending more than 10 minutes to understand it, given that you've spent probably a lifetime falling in love with the present paradigm that has probably benefited you and me greatly, but not most of the world."

Watching the protesters (SOME OF WHOM WHO ARE CALLING FOR THE OUTRIGHT DESTRUCTION OF CAPITALISM) makes me think of V Lenin even more than Marx. These are the types he referred to as "useful idiots" and if you need to look deeper, take a look at those who are urging the protesters on..specifically Van Jones and Francis Fox Pivin...and what they openly advocate (although the now soft spoken Jones has dropped "the radical pose to achieve the radical ends."

I AGREE that the Wall Street bankers in general aren't rich because of merit. They have become rich thanks to corruption. They are in bed with the Fed, as well as two of the three branches of the government...and that isn't free market capitalism. The regulations that forced banks to make bad loans led to the creation of even worse securities which were highly rated by corrupt organizations who also benefited from a scheme that was designed to provide home ownership for those who couldn't afford it in the first place. (sorry for the long sentence).

The new regulations that will reform the markets are being written right now (Dodd-Frank). And the corruption will continue as the players find new ways to beat the system. As long as governments make up the rules that benefit some at the expense of others that's how the game will be played.

 

[gsi16386]

Lets go occupy gsi's calle!!!! Andemos!!!!

LOL...i'm out in a month, so better organize quick!

 

[Joe]

I AGREE that the Wall Street bankers in general aren't rich because of merit. They have become rich thanks to corruption. They are in bed with the Fed, as well as two of the three branches of the government...and that isn't free market capitalism. The regulations that forced banks to make bad loans led to the creation of even worse securities which were highly rated by corrupt organizations who also benefited from a scheme that was designed to provide home ownership for those who couldn't afford it in the first place. (sorry for the long sentence).

The new regulations that will reform the markets are being written right now (Dodd-Frank). And the corruption will continue as the players find new ways to beat the system. As long as governments make up the rules that benefit some at the expense of others that's how the game will be played.

The decline of the US into Crony Capitalism has given Capitalism a bad name. Unfortunately I don't see the ruling elites doing anything to redress the situation. Only a few years after an economic meltdown caused by lax regulations and lax enforcement these same ruling elites are again talking about "burdensome regulations".

And don't forget the biggest welfare scheme in the history of the world was the bailout of the financial industry in the 2008 economic meltdown.

 

[citygirl]

people who have lost their jobs, pensions, homes etc because of irresponsible (to put it kindly) bankers and mortgage agents, and young people who have exorbitant student loans which will hover over many years of their lives while their job prospects are bleak or worse, are hardly arrogant and don't expect entitlements. they are looking for a fair chance. they have a point, especially in view of exorbitant executive pay and obscene rewards for ceo's who have run their companies into a ditch and then get fired. and walk away with millions.

Okay - this is what I find really short-sighted. The majority of people lost their homes because they chose to take on mortgages that they couldn't afford! Bankers weren't putting a gun to their heads to force them to do it. And those students - how many of them chose to go to an expensive university when there were alternative options out there including state universities, working p/t while going to school, etc?

Look - I think that there needs to be serious reforms in the financial system. And yes - I find it REPREHENSIBLE to read about some of these "golden parachutes" Company loses money or goes under - the C level execs shouldn't get one penny on their way out.

I do however shake my head at the "blame it ALL on the evil bankers." Many people need to look in the mirror and accept the fact they THEY were just as much a part of the problem as the bankers, hedge fund, etc. B/C I seem to remember between 2003 and 2007 and oh yes, between 96 and 2000 - there were a lot of people enjoying those huge gains in the market and all the luxuries it afforded them. Live by the sword, die by the sword no? It wasn't just the markets that were caught up in the "irrational enthusiasm".

 

[steveinbsas]

The decline of the US into Crony Capitalism has given Capitalism a bad name. Unfortunately I don't see the ruling elites doing anything to redress the situation. Only a few years after an economic meltdown caused by lax regulations and lax enforcement these same ruling elites are again talking about "burdensome regulations".

And don't forget the biggest welfare scheme in the history of the world was the bailout of the financial industry in the 2008 economic meltdown.

I could not agree more.