Peronist Future?

[Pensador]

It all boils down to understanding whether you really have to respond to the shortcomings (or downright stupidity) of others, or you are aware you are creating your version of the world. In the world I create, respect for one another is an absolute must. Victim versus creator. You choose. Hate if you must, respect if you can.

There is big difference between hate and responding to lies, propaganda and manipulation with truth and honesty. Calling a spade a spade is not hate it is called telling the truth.

 

[gusgutier]

I don't think anyone, including Juan Domingo, ever knew what peronism meant philosophically, because it was all about strategy and tactics to gain and hold power. Populism was probably the most important part and of course he got that from Evita. She, in turn, possibly had an affinity for the poor, but everything I've ever heard always described her hatred of the oligarchy (hence the rich) as her driving force.

But I started this to learn, not talk, so I'll sit back and enjoy the discussion.

Las veinte verdades peronistas ( THE 20 peronists statements ) Sorry, in national&popular spanish
BTW Great amount of books related to Peron doctrine One of latest written by Anibal Fernandez

 

[ElQueso]

I respect the right of a person to associate with whom he or she pleases, but governments only allow that to a limited degree. But I don't respect people who try force large groups of people to do what they consider to be right for everyone. As far as government reach goes I could accept a small government that kept the peace, kept people honest at all levels of society with a minimum of laws (no murder, no theft, no contract breaking without possibility of enforcement, etc). Even if keeping the peace meant having a military that stays at home and actually defends its borders. But the human reality in this day and age forces us to have big governments. Ok. I have to accept that. I'm so far in the minority even on size of government that I have to allow myself to be tyrannized or spend the rest of my life in prison or worse.

I respect Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner as a human being. I absolutely despise her politics. She's arrogant and out of touch, apparently, with at least parts of reality in my opinion. But she hasn't done anything that's worth hanging her for, in the literal sense (as in by the neck until dead - and unless it turns out by some weird chance that she actually did order Nisman killed. Or that she and Maximo killed her husband. Heh.). I wouldn't spit on her if I saw her on the street. In fact, I'd probably open the door for her if we were entering the same place simply because I try to be polite, even if she just smirked her way past me and didn't thank me.

I can't really say I do or don't respect her as a person because I don't know her. Her public self does not impress me very much. But she's done some good things for human rights, at least as far as prosecuting guys from the bad old days. However, I feel that's offset somewhat by her complete control of the country's economy which brought it to a standing halt to the effect of so many.

I know peronists who are fine people and I do respect them while not sharing their views. I don't think non-extremist peronism is completely dangerous (the corruption is what really kills), just not what I think works best. I know all kinds of people, of many nationalities and political and religious views. If they are decent human beings, I respect them. If they are cheaters or liars or thieves or grafters or tyrants, I don't.

La Campora. I've met a few here and there over the last few years and I'm not impressed. I can't respect the blind fervor with which so many support policies that help to cause and lie about the very thing they are trying to fix. There's enough information available that they can form a valid opinion about the truth (or at least fuzzy truths). I don't respect fanaticism that leads to people trying to force other people to live in ways in which they don't want to live. This is dangerous. It leads to more poverty, more miserable people, more hard lives. It just doesn't work. Similar themes have been repeated time and again in history and it gets tiring to deal with the same old crap, different bad smell. The adoration with which many talk and act about Cristina herself is a sign of danger. I hope it's getting nipped in the bud (as in Cristina losing power and La Campora toning down some) before it can form into something that would be deeply regretted.

I can't respect people that do these things. I don't have to know them personally. They are dangerous as a group. Not in any immediate, physical sense as far as I know. They're dangerous to the future of growth and to bringing people out of poverty and righting wrongs. No matter their good intentions.

Respect isn't just one thing, black or white. It's a rainbow ( )

 

[gusgutier]

Peronism at its purest

https://www.youtube....h?v=cQbdVR862NY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j8U9XN_AbQ

 

[Bajo_cero2]

This is dangerous:
http://m.diarioregistrado.com/mobile/politica/135003-duras-agresiones-a-cristina-en-el-festejo-de-los-votantes-de-cambiemos.html

 

[Gringoboy]

This is dangerous:
http://m.diarioregis...-cambiemos.html

That's way over the top, even for Argentina.

 

[davidtarbuck]

This thread is very educational. Keep it up folks!

 

[EJLarson]

This is dangerous:
http://m.diarioregistrado.com/mobile/politica/135003-duras-agresiones-a-cristina-en-el-festejo-de-los-votantes-de-cambiemos.html

This sort of thing has no place in civil discourse. The first rule for winners of a political battle should always be, "be gracious and respectful" - at the very least because next time you may be the loser.

Noting that, the coffin display is probably nothing more than enormous bad taste. I don't know who these people are, but it seems that it's just a metaphor, not to be taken literally. If I'm wrong, then yeah, it's scary.

 

[wineguy999]

...and there's the Cámpora's response to the election. This is reputed to be a group of CFK's finest expressing their support by relieving themselves at the Municipal Cathedral.

(Linked, because disgusting, if not NSFW.)

http://s26.postimg.org/sw7oiemtl/Campora.jpg

 

[ElQueso]

Wow, about what I would expect for La Campora. But really, nothing to show it's actually La Campora or even related to the election or taken recently even.

And I agree with EJLarson, that winners (and losers, but winners most importantly) should indeed be graceful about their win. But I don't really expect that in Argentina. They haven't figured out how to lose futbol games gracefully, much less elections. Very emotional. Just something one has to expect.

If it was La Campora in the photo posted by WineGuy999, I find their way of showing their feelings much worse, disgusting and downright dangerous (that stuff they're letting fly is actually a health hazard) than those who were carrying the representation of a coffin which obviously referred to Cristina's reign, and not the woman herself. What's dangerous is what Cristina did during her term to cause people to want to equate the end of her term with the death (or ending) of her term and hopefully Kirchnerism itself.