Potentially Moving to Argentina

[steveinbsas]

I cannot see how someone with good foreign income can willingly subject himself to Argentinian taxation. Tourists stamps for as long as possible then settle nearby where foreign income is not taxed.

It is oft' said that there is nothing more certain than death and taxes.

Of course you have to be alive to be able to pay taxes.

Based on what I've learned in the past ten pus years, I think it's fair to say that anyone with a desire to live on a finca will be more likley to be able to pay taxes in the future in Argentina than South Africa.

That being said, someone with a "good" foreign income may not have to pay any income tax in Argentina, but it all depends on how one defines the word "good."

It took less than two minutes to see (on the AFIP website) that the current threshold for taxation of monthly income for residents and citizens of Argentina is $150.000 pesos.

At today's Western Union exchange rate for USD, that's about $850.

That means a couple (acting as individuals using separate accounts in each counrty) could transfer the equivalent of almost $1700 USD per month without having to pay income tax in Argrentina.

I have been living on a quinta of 2.5 acres for the past eleven years, and, with a monthy income of less than $850. I have been easily able to pay all of my bills, including insurance (house and car),utilities, and property taxes, buy all the food and suplies I need, as well as maintain my house and vehicle...and still have enough $ to buy furniture, housewares and decorative items (vintage and/antique) for my home, and, whenever it is necessary, replace many other items (water pumps, generators, TV's, DVD players, smart TV boxes, lawn mowers, garden tool, hoses, etc).

I do not pay the bienes personales (asset tax) on my property in Argentina because (last time I checked) it's valuation by ARBA is about twelve million pesos below the minimum amout subject to the tax. I don't pay it on foreign asssets in my "home" (or any other) country because I don't have any.

I can't be sure, but I imagine Newman and his wife will liquidate any assets they have in South Africa prior to their departure, especially if, like me, they have no desire (or, even more likely in their case, little hope of ever being able) to return.

 

[HenryNisental]

Forgot to mention: It is advisable that you keep your foreign bank account open.
This will help you to collect your salary, and there are ways to bring USD here with only a 3% surcharge.
This is what I do. Keep your dollars outside here and you will be ok.

 

[Pianosteve]

Forgot to mention: It is advisable that you keep your foreign bank account open.
This will help you to collect your salary, and there are ways to bring USD here with only a 3% surcharge.
This is what I do. Keep your dollars outside here and you will be ok.

Do you mean wiring funds from your bank in (I'm presuming) the USA? I can't keep flying to the UK from Argentina and back every time I need foreign currency.

 

[Newman_ZA]

Firstly, yes crime is a huge reason we are planning to move. Let me say that crime disproportionately affects black and low income people but, it is bad here for everyone no matter race. Everyone is scared of being robbed, car jacked, their house invaded etc. It is true that There is the issue of farm murders but they are only a tiny fraction of murders that occur each year but we often hear of farm murders in our food producing areas around the city. Just purely looking at the numbers, 58 people are murdered every day in South Africa. Just to compare Argentina's homicide rate is about 5 per 100 000 people. I think South Africa is closer to 40 per 100 000 people. This is also not even mentioning that at one stage (not sure anymore) but South Africa was once the sexual assault capital of the world. I don't want any of this for my future kids.

I have been living on a quinta of 2.5 acres for the past eleven years, and, with a monthy income of less than $850.

Just to give you an idea @steveinbsas but we pay about $800 in rent alone for a place in Cape Town. That is considered cheap as well for a middle income apartment. House prices here are broken. Unless you choose an unsafe area of the city you will never be able to afford to buy a house or decent apartment. Other cities in the country are much better in terms of prices and rent. My cousin is paying about $430 for rent in another smaller coastal city for a small 2 bedroom townhouse. Most things are getting expensive here now. It is becoming more and more expensive as the government increases taxes on everything. I know the current Argentinian Gov is doing the same but its at least a bit more manageable if we bring in foreign currency. I also don't want to avoid taxes. If I am responsible for tax I will pay. I may have to manage what I bring into the country but I will pay my fair share.

One of the big reasons we want to leave though is the social fabric of the country is broken. Race is very important here. Despite the apartheid policy of racial discrimination being over it is still important in accessing opportunities, especially with preferential employment acts for those previously discriminated against. This has bled into society which is still very divided. My wife does not form part of any of the existing racial groups (black, white, coloured, indian/asian) and is an "other". If you don't belong to a racial group you get viewed with suspicion. I am scared that if we stay here she will lose a part of her culture and our kids will grow up without that.

 

[steveinbsas]

Firstly, yes crime is a huge reason we are planning to move.. Everyone is scared of being robbed, car jacked, their house invaded etc. It is true that There is the issue of farm murders but they are only a tiny fraction of murders that occur each year but we often hear of farm murders in our food producing areas around the city.

I included the video about the murder of South African farmers because you indicated in your first post that you would "pretty much have a small finca or buy one" after arriving in Argentina. You didn't specify where in Mendoza your wife's family is located, but it sounds like they will be very close and that will no doubt influence where you would buy a small finca if you decide not to stay on the one you will have when you arrive.

things are getting expensive here now. It is becoming more and more expensive as the government increases taxes on everything. I know the current Argentinian Gov is doing the same but its at least a bit more manageable if we bring in foreign currency. I also don't want to avoid taxes. If I am responsible for tax I will pay. I may have to manage what I bring into the country but I will pay my fair share.

It was the current Argetine government that more than doubled the the miminum income subject to tax in the past year, so my hat's off to the government for that reason, along with the high exemption for the bienes personales on real estate if you actually occupy the property you own.

Like me, you will pay the IVA tax on almost everything (including insurance and utilities) unless you buy something that is used. Many of the items I buy on Mercado Libre are used, so no IVA is charged. Some members have mentioned that they get a discount (usually 10%) from businesses if they pay in cash, but I suspect that means the business does not declare the sale and does not pay the IVA.

This means the seller gets 11% more than the original price and the government gets nothing. It's not tax avoidance (which is legal in the sense I use the term), it's tax evaison (which is a crime) on both the part of the buyer and the seller. I pay for almost everything with my Argentine credit card, so I know I am paying IVA on everything subject to it. When I pay my accountant or car mechanic in cash, they give me a factura.

One of the big reasons we want to leave though is the social fabric of the country is broken. Race is very important here...If you don't belong to a racial group you get viewed with suspicion. I am scared that if we stay here she will lose a part of her culture and our kids will grow up without that.

If you move to Argentina, your wife's "culture" will be preserved and your kids should never have the slighest concern about thier race.

You previously mentioned that you know you can get a "permit" to enter Argentina. I think someone mentioned that you can fly here with your wife. That's true, but I don't think you will be allowed to enter the country without that permit (aka a precaria).

If you haven't already done so, I suggest you contact the Argentine consulate to see what you need to to to get one and, if you plane to bring household goods to Argentina, contact a customs broker and get the ball rolling.

Then make the move as soon as possible. Hopefully, like me, you will never regret it.

PS: As a "returning Argentine citizen" your wife may be even able to import a used car duty free, but restrictions apply, including how long she has owned the car. It may have to be registered in her name alone, but I'm not certain.

 

[mc kenna]

I would suggest you potentially move to Uruguay, by the time you realize what a nightmare this place is , you are gonna be waist deep in this quick sand they call argentina

 

[steveinbsas]

I would suggest you potentially move to Uruguay, by the time you realize what a nightmare this place is , you are gonna be waist deep in this quick sand they call argentina

The Newmans might get a better perspective of why you regard "this place" (specifically, Chivilcoy) as a "nightmare" if they read this:

Here's A Little Story...

Everything started over a month ago, i have been remodeling a house that i'm getting ready to sell, and spending a bit of money doing so. One of the problems in this hick town is that people talk a little to much, with that in mind i was very careful about my rutine and movements in and out of...

baexpats.org

From the first page of the thread:

I visited your town MANY years ago for the day. From your story I see that certain locals have not changed their attitudes much.

PS: It would be interesting to know how much you knew about Chivilcoy before you decided to live there and if you had any friends or family already living there who encouraged the move, as Mrs. Newman's family in Mendoza have regarding their potential move there.

 

[steveinbsas]

I have been living on a quinta of 2.5 acres for the past eleven years, and, with a monthy income of less than $850.

Just to give you an idea @steveinbsas but we pay about $800 in rent alone for a place in Cape Town.

Just to be clear, I own my property and I do not pay rent.

I do however, pay property tax which, when I arrived in 2010 were about $100USD per year.

This year, however, though the peso amount was much greater than in 2010, my property tax was less than $60 USD.

 

[mc kenna]

The Newmans might get a better perspective of why you regard "this place" (specifically, Chivilcoy) as a "nightmare" if they read this:

Here's A Little Story...

Everything started over a month ago, i have been remodeling a house that i'm getting ready to sell, and spending a bit of money doing so. One of the problems in this hick town is that people talk a little to much, with that in mind i was very careful about my rutine and movements in and out of...

baexpats.org

From the first page of the thread:



PS: It would be interesting to know how much you knew about Chivilcoy before you decided to live there and if you had any friends or family already living there who encouraged the move, as Mrs. Newman's family in Mendoza have regarding their potential move there.

I don't know if i ever mentioned this, but i grew up in chivilcoy , so i can recall things about argentina most don't know or best case, they've seen in a documentary.
As far as knowledge of the culture and the area, i had plenty since my roots run about 5 generations back here in chivilcoy,(yes, about a week after natives stopped raiding towns, though 25 de mayo was still being raided by savages)
It was never my intention to reside here but due to family mandates i had to come back and take care of certain family affairs , thinking this will be quick, go back take care of things , and head back to the States , yet here i still am.....
I'm not here to create friction as many of you came here on your own free will and think this place is fantastic, ie , cheap wine, good cheap beef, a European feel of the culture beautiful women , tango and so on.....and i hate to play devil's advocate but i find that many new comers get a wrong reading of what really it's been going on for a long time, and , again by the time that fog of being amazed by the many advantages this place offers, it's too late to pull out without losing your investments, in short, if you have a change of heart, this could end up being a very expensive experience that no cheap wine or best beef can make up for it.
I can assure you that these cycles of crisis never change, to give you an idea i recall when argentina went from peso moneda nacional to peso ley 18188 and from there it was all downhill with certain times when people thought things were improving when in reality they were ... less bad, but never better for any sustainable period of time.
Racial tensions here are inexistent .... maybe because natives were removed or exterminated and blacks suffer the same fate. In argentina it has always been a class type of discrimination.
Remember that you are '' the gringo'' friend , thus , maybe you have(lots of) money. i once mentioned if you wanted to find out how many true friends you made here, tell them you are broke and ask for a loan.
I really hope this family makes the right decision what ever that might be , i wish them luck as i know first hand how tedious it is to make an international move of such magnitude.

 

[Alby]

Cortazar gives his experience of and views on living in Chivilcoy from 19:00-19:24 in this video:

(Wasn't a fan either)