Seeking advise on a "touchy topic"

Iznogud said:
I resemble that remark. ;) I'm a porteño but there's no porteño in Ceviche's current misfortune.

I'm truly sorry if any insult or offense was taken. Obviously my point is not that all Porteños are cheats and thieves because that is NOT true. My only point is to be very careful as it pertains to employees.

I dearly love Argentina and my children are "Porteños" being born and raised there several years.
 
No harm done, just pulling your leg and warning you about assumptions, that is all.
 
amorphous face said:
I am sure you were probably paying him very little and paying him in black with no benefits.

I don't know what you mean "very little". I was paying, what i advertised and what was demanded of the person.

If you mean to say, that i was not gracious enough to pay heightened "gringo" rates. yes, you are correct. I don't like to pay "Gringo" rates.

And I did not put a gun on anyone's head to work for me for a "potentially low" salary or to work in black for me.

Its like " hey, this what i need to be done, this is what I pay, no paper work, just take payment every week and regard it as a part time work..are you interested?"

Lot of times, I have employed people in USA for part time work in the kitchen etc or help my old parents who lived there. Even despite it being a modern country, you don't draw a contract for such work! Their was no contracts and mostly those people who used to come for such work were illegals, who came on a 3 month tourist visa to USA and stayed on there for rest of thier lives with no papers . Thats the way to go sometimes. It benefits both parties.


amorphous face said:
You yelled back. You both abused each other.

This seems to be from the perspective of a employee. Though you are not completely right in the allegation, but "this was the last straw which broke the camel's back". The "camel" being me, here. This was not the first instance when I found the employee doing something morally wrong and had been given enough warnings. I do not employ people to get abused or allow my country to be abused because I catch the person stealing etc.

Though, I have no business to stop someone's salary. However their is a famous saying, " some people are best dealt with when flogged not with talks!"

I have done the same thing in USA as well. Once I left my old parent with a helper for a week in NY. And the helper did not give food to my parent for a week and was busy partying. I stopped her salary for 3 months about 1000 us$. She threatened that she would get me shot, she threatened to go to court, she threatened to go to police. i held my ground. I ultimately paid up but taught her a lesson. A lesson which she would not forget for a long time and take the job seriously.

My problem here in BA is that despite spending so much time, I am not very good in speaking Spanish and to communicate with the police or some government agency if it went that far. Thats the reason I decided to pay up. ( and also because I felt sorry for the poverty of the person despite being abused by the same person!) Else to be honest, I am very thick skinned and have load full of guts. I was ready to take the employee on and face the Afip or the police or a gang of criminals. I excel in such challenges and ready to face the consequences. Often I am told I am like a bull or a lion who strikes head on, on the face...and should learn to be cunning like a fox, behind the back, as thats always a more safer option. Go figure.
 
earlyretirement said:
I'm truly sorry if any insult or offense was taken. Obviously my point is not that all Porteños are cheats and thieves because that is NOT true. My only point is to be very careful as it pertains to employees.

I confirm, no Argentine was involved.

As a matter of fact, in my 5 years of life in ARgentina, I never had a problem with any Argentine, and I have dealt with a few of them! Lot of people on this forum have a problem with Argentines. I personally love Argentines.

Last 4 years, I have had 4 major/serious problems in Argentina. Shockingly, all 4 times it was with foreigners, NEVER with a Argentine!

In the present case, the person involved was a overseas student from a Spanish speaking country. And I always take a copy of the passport, visa stamp or dni when ever I employ anyone to be safe.
 
amorphous face said:
Well I am glad you gave the employee the money as you owed it to him and I am sure you were probably paying him very little and paying him in black with no benefits. That doesn't justify his stealing. I am not sure why you wanted to hold off on paying him what you owed him just because he yelled at you. You yelled back. You both abused each other. Plus I get yelled at all the time by drivers when I am walking on the street or when I am in line when people think I am taking too long or asking too many questions or whatever. Just because an employee yells at you doesn't mean you can keep from paying him the money you owe him.

This is amazing and deserves some dissecting.
No one but the thief knows Ceviche's real losses at this point.

Your assumptions on whatever deal they had are unbelievable.
A contract is drawn when two adults agree on something. If they both agreed on a fee, then it's not up to you or any1 else to say who is screwing who on the deal.
The other party could very well refuse to work in black or have the proper credentials to do otherwise. Certainly not Ceviche's single fault or responsibility.

You do not keep from paying someone because you had a shouting contest with them, but you do retain funds from other parties sometimes (rentals) when you might need to cover for losses or damages . Nobody frowns on that.

Why bring this to what happens to you on the streets? Are you a party to this story? Seriously?

Not taking Ceviche's side but definitely observing that you approach is not only one sided but shortsighted as well. You have little faith on his position but are happy to give the other party all the benefits.

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earlyretirement said:
Like I said...these employees will NEVER admit they did anything wrong even when it's clear and obvious they did. And these Porteños can be so whacky that I honestly think they talk themselves into believing they are in the right.

That is just so true. Had one of our managers running her own company within our company, even to the point of running interviews for her company in the office.... She demanded to be fired (of course)..which we did , paid her the goodbye package and 1 month afterwards she invited me as a contact on to LinkedIn and FB friend? Delusional...
 
A person shows us their character in the small things. If they steal a little, they will steal a lot given the opportunity. A thief is a thief. As others have posted, with me it is one time and you're out!

However, years ago statistics in the US showed that, left unmonitored, 90% of employees would steal from a cash box in time. It might start with a few cents to buy themselves coffee and goes on from there. I would not be surprised if that figure is nearer 100% today. This is the reason a cash box must have a certain amount in it and a voucher made for every single expenditure and then tallied at the end of the day. It is necessary to always have checks on employees. It actually helps the employee to be honest and is a benefit for everyone.

A business that sells ice cream cones might count the cones and compare them with the receipts so the employee knows if they start giving cones to their friends the tally won't . . . well . . . tally! But once they steal, you should know you have a thief. You can have a soft heart all you want and if you feel sorry for a thief well, good luck! Just my opinion! Sadly I fear you are in a land of thieves! ;D
 
Ah! The Broken Windows Theory and Zero Tolerance Policy...here we go.
 
Quite frankly my jaw has now hit the floor this is so farcical.
If you take someone on as casual labour and you BOTH understand that and you pay him in cash, it's pretty well clear cut, on both sides.
Under any circumstances, if anyone steals, they are out.......Chau, adios....end of.
He forfeited any of his rights by stealing from you and if you hadn't been so worried about his feelings, you wouldn't be eating out of his hand right now.
Pay him nothing, dump him and move on.
 
You should be commended for trying to take the high road. But if I were you I'd change the locks.
 
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