Seriously Thinking Of Retiring In Ba

Similar circumstances to you but I'm from the UK rather than the US. I moved here ten years ago with my Argentine wife...It wasn't until I applied for my DNI that the hassle started but as I wasn't in any rush to have it that was just annoying more than a problem.

Keeping a US bank account open would be wise.

A great deal has changed in recent years regarding getting the DNI. Ten years ago (when I also got mine) there was a separate process that had to be initiated at a different location than migraciones (the Registro de las Personas) and for months at a time they didn't give turnos. When they did it was often necessary to go before dawn and wait in line just to get a number. It was also necessary to return in person ninety days later to pick up the DNI and that could also take hours.

If you get Argentine permanent residency from the Consulate in the USA you will still have to ask for the DNI in Argentina but it shouldn't be terribly annoying these days.

Having a Charles Schwab checking account and debit card is a great option. It is necessary to open a brokerage account to get them but funding the brokerage account is not required.
 
here is an interesting price comparison between the USA and BsAs
an in city apartment in Seattle, 450 sq ft, 1 bedroom, in a nice older building, but not a great neighborhood- $280,000 US.
http://www.zillow.co...589_rect/16_zm/

and, in Barrio Norte, a much nicer neighborhood to live in, in my opinion (and I have lived in both neighborhoods, and my son currently lives 2 blocks from the Seattle address)

same price-
you decide which is more expensive.

http://www.zonaprop....4-41211215.html

and Seattle, while it has nice views, is no Buenos Aires.
obviously prices in a real city, like SF or NYC, are much much higher...
 
I've never lived in the most expensive places in the US, places like New York, San Francisco - or even D.C. Because of that, it costs me more to live here than it does for my folks, for example, to live in St Louis (which is the only measuring stick I have left because I go to visit them at least once a year and I've been here for 10 years now, this month - and St Louis is often more expensive than Houston, where I cam from when I moved here). That includes, BTW, things like mortgages and quality of living, not just outright costs, the prior benefits of which are hard to enumerate or quantify.

If you own your property here, yes, things are better as far as costs go, as you wouldn't be paying rent - and rents are relatively expensive and difficult to get (it's more complex than that, actually, all told) while property taxes are cheaper than probably just about anywhere in the US. It sounds like you're fairly familiar with the visiting side of Argentina - do you understand about needing a garantia to rent property here? Maybe you are planning on buying and that won't be an issue, but if you are planning on renting you need to find someone, almost certainly a member of your wife's family, to put up their property as a guarantee that you won't live in your apartment without paying rent or won't destroy the place. If you are planning on buying, you may have problems in the future getting your money out of Argentina if you decide to leave.

Food costs are as high or higher than I see when I go back to the States, in many case - meat being an exception and sometimes vegetables maybe. Simple things like a can of paint, or a tool (screwdriver or electric drill, etc) are much more expensive than in the US (in many case 2-3 times more, in some just 1.5 - 2) - when you can even find what you need. You can find some electronic stuff that is not too poorly-priced, but usually it's something assembled here, and usually of reasonable quality - but the rest is horribly expensive and not a wide variety of things are assembled here. Clothes are expensive for quality - if you buy inexpensive be prepared to pamper them every time they are washed. I've seen people comment here when I comment about shoes for example, saying that I must not be looking very hard: yet my wife was just showing off her black leather knee-high boots that I bought at a chain in the States for about $50 last year to the owners of our apartment (who inherited some 5 apartments and a soy business from their mother about 5 years ago, are about my age, early 50s) and they were astounded at the quality and wanted to know where she got them because they can't find anything like that here that they feel is affordable and they couldn't believe how little I paid for them. I can't remember the name of the place in St Louis where I bought them, but it was at a national shoe store chain. I also brought back tennis shoes and lingerie (every day) for my wife and her sisters because of the outrageous prices here on such things. Not to mention that they don't even have bra cup sizes - only the chest measurement and it's difficult to find stuff that fit women here. Personally, I can't find any comfortable shirts that are big enough at any cost. Everyone here likes things tight - an XXX Large (I like to wear clothing real lose around the house, I'm talking t-shirts here - I'm not perfectly toned, for sure, but I'm not obese either) shirt for me fits like a M or L.

Medicine, doctors and insurance (at least the kind I have) are cheaper than in the US. Which just shows (at least to me) that President Obama didn't do anyone any clear favors with "his" plan, but that's another discussion. I have Hospital Aleman coverage, which is provided primarily at their central hospital, as well as at various individual doctor's offices and there are some clinics and smaller hospitals connected as well throughout the country for those who don't live close to the hospital itself. I used to live outside of the city, some 40 kilometers, and there was a good central clinic out there who took care of us. For myself, my wife, and her three younger sisters (who are like my daughters) we pay just under 7000 pesos a month, which is about $460 USD, much cheaper than a family of 5 could find comprehensive insurance in the States, for sure. But I started out paying around $300 USD (that's as of about 3 years ago, when all three youngsters were with us and before the inflation got totally out of hand). Of course, at over 50 I pay more and may have a lot to do with the rise in prices - I didn't study that closely and compare it to inflation at the time. But I'm fairly happy with my plan, even with a 40% increase over the last 3 years.

But as an example of something that has risen in price not just as the peso weakens, but also has risen compared to the Dollar - movie tickets. When I came here in 2006, I could see a movie for 10 pesos and the exchange rate was about 2.9 (or so) to 1. In Dollars, that movie cost $3.45 USD - a stupendous deal at the time, considering that almost all of the movies shown were from Hollywood and for the same movies in the States I was paying something like $7-$8 USD at the time (if I remember correctly). Movies now cost around $130 pesos, or $8.66 USD. Don't know what they are in the States these days.

But that's one of the biggest problems with living in Agentina, in my opinion: Inflation and economic and political instability.

It has impacted a retired friend of mine quite a bit. He's a retired cop, originally from New York but retired from the southeast part of the Florida peninsula. He bought an apartment here some 12 years ago and married a local Argentine woman, complete with family. Although he still likes living here, he has been hard-pressed to do so comfortably, dealing with the economics of Argentina, and Buenos Aires in particular, in the last 3-4 years.

I make a very good salary, myself, and with 5 people to provide for I feel like tearing my hair out very often within the last few years. My wife and her three sisters all go to school (her and our two oldest to university and our youngest to high school). While people may say things like "where in the US could you have three people at university and one in a private school so cheaply", I'd respond that as bad as anyone thinks that schools are in the US, the worst public school probably doesn't have as many problems as the best public (though not the top-tier national schools) high schools here - if you want even a mediocre high school education you pretty much have to pay for it (and I could go on and on on that subject, as to what mediocre means!). Universities are different here and although there are scholarships available, they are hard to get, those that mean anything and the prices rise constantly. No student loans. A huge number of people who started university where my wife and our eldest go have had to leave because they can't afford the giant rising prices. Things may be relatively cheap, but when you make a budget it's impossible to keep to it as everything, and schools most of all, raise their prices sometimes on a weekly or monthly basis - while the government does everything they can to keep up a false peso value so they can continue to pretend that they are worried about the poor folk they are supposed to be helping.

A lot of these things may not affect a retired person, as far as school and expenses for youngsters goes, but that's just what hits me the most.

We've watched the value of the Peso go from less than 3-1 to the Dollar (it was about 2.9 or so when I moved here) to 15-1 to the Dollar, which is over-valued at the moment by about 17% (the government is thinking it will go closer to where it belongs, around 18-1, at the beginning of next year - but that only helps if inflation is under control by then! Otherwise it will continue to be overvalued). We've watched inflation go from single-digit (around 3-4% when I moved here) to at the very least 30% annual, though many are saying now, at least in the first half of this year, it's as much as 40-45% (though it seems things have calmed somewhat, recently).

In the last 4 years of the previous administration we saw severe financial and economic restrictions placed on the citizens, residents and tourists to this country as the previous government tried to keep things going in the face of some "voodoo" economics they implemented (that's being nice - they also stole the country blind, among other things!). Politics here is charged with populism and adoration of leaders (I mean, to me, seemingly more so than should be normal). People here want to live for free, without having to work, for a great part of the population. And too many leaders and political parties pick up on that and promise things that are impossible to achieve and end up doing things that kill the economy.

Macri is a big hope for me, and many others who would want some government with a bit of reality. But with the people he faces as opposition, many of whom have proven they have no scruples and don't seem to be very worried about what little law is enforced here, we have no idea how much he will be able to accomplish as a reformer before his first presidency comes to an end, and whether or not he has any hope of being reelected.

On top of all this, I will mention a slightly more personal and touchy subject - family. Obviously, I have no idea what kind of family your wife comes from. I can comment, however, on how many family situations I've seen here, and particularly when a person is married into a family who is from the US, or Europe, etc. Families here demand so much from their members, as far as support for this ailing relative, or that sick brother, or the uncle who lost all of his money on some deal gone bad. You living here amongst them could have some baggage that goes along with it, depending on how her family itself is. I've seen some of the most well-off families live lives "sin verguenza" and some fo the poorest families live with honor - and vice versa.

And last but not least - I was standing in the supermarket yesterday, in line behind a somewhat older gentleman (probably in his mid 60s), waiting to check out in the fast lane at Disco in Recoleta. We got to talking (he was complaining about how the economy was killing him and I was commiserating) and one thing lead to another and I got the question I always get - "de donde sos?" I pride myself on my Spanish and even the extent to which I try not to talk like a typical American (terrible, terrible accents very often!), but I will never talk with an Argentine accent for at least a couple of reasons, so he knew I wasn't "from here". I told him I was from the US and so he wouldn't consider me just a tourist, I let him know I have lived here for ten years. He looked at me for a moment, looked at his watch, looked at me again, started to say something, grinned a small, slightly embarrassed grin, and finally asked "why? Are you mentally disturbed?"

It's a question I get almost every time an Argentine finds out I live here - on purpose. My answer is always "I came for business but I stayed for love." While there is a lot of truth to that (after all, my wife is Paraguayan, married for 9 years, and we could have moved to Paraguay or some other country if we wanted to, even the US), it's not a simple answer. And very few of the Argentines with whom I would like to associate (i.e., not people who are rabid Cristina fanatics or people who consider themselves entitled to my money, such little as it is, for nothing in return) can understand why someone who would come from a country like the US and would want to live in their country.

So my point to you (sorry about the long post, it's a bad habit I have - ask anyone here!) is make sure you don't throw caution to the wind and do something permanent that you may regret later. Visiting, even for months at a time, is nothing like living here. Take your time if at all possible, no matter what you think you, personally, know of Argentina, and no matter what your wife says :)

There are many good things about Argentina, but it's the other things that could get to you. If you have a lot of money to fall back on, admittedly the economic side of things here don't mean nearly as much. Things are indeed relative.
 
I would agree, some things are more, some things are less, and living in Argentina is not for everybody.

2 prices for reference, though-
movie tickets at the funky loews multiplex in the Burlington Wa. mall, which is the nearest to me, and your feet will stick to the floor and numerous cell phones will go off during every showing- $10.50 usd.

and- this apartment, in Seattle, which is the exact space I, as an artist, had my studio between 1975 and 1977, and I paid $100 a month for- is for rent, at "market rates" at $6,222 a month.
http://www.officespace.com/seattle-wa/building/62008-1517-12th-avenue

Not everywhere is St. Louis, thats for sure.

Personally, I love Buenos Aires. Thats why I live there. not because its cheap, or expensive.
 
On top of all this, I will mention a slightly more personal and touchy subject - family. Obviously, I have no idea what kind of family your wife comes from. I can comment, however, on how many family situations I've seen here, and particularly when a person is married into a family who is from the US, or Europe, etc. Families here demand so much from their members, as far as support for this ailing relative, or that sick brother, or the uncle who lost all of his money on some deal gone bad. You living here amongst them could have some baggage that goes along with it, depending on how her family itself is. I've seen some of the most well-off families live lives "sin verguenza" and some fo the poorest families live with honor - and vice versa.


So much truth in these words, ElQ! We moved here 2.5 years ago and - at first - I thought they were just overly enthusiastic about my husband comeback. However, it soon started to run us down, basically we were playing hosts all days for people stopping by at our place while running errands, bored relatives coming to drink mate/tea with facturas at 5 PM, etc. I come from a very different family and we usually gather for funerals or other important reasons, whereas here families are mostly a 24/7 business. They call at all times with no apparent reason if not just to chat, they keep sending Whatsapp messages just to hang out virtually, they are a recurrent appointment Sunday at lunch or Friday for dinner out, etc.

Our faint attempt to let them know that we are actually workers (from home) went unnoticed at first, so my husband had to be a little more brutal and some family members didn't took it very well. This was something I was not expecting. When we came here on holiday, it was normal to be busy at all times to spend time together, however this turned out being their main occupation.

There is a lot of helping going on, also financially, which in my native society is considered something shameful, but here seems to be the most natural thing in the world. If you have the means but don't help proportionally, then you are considered greedy. It doesn't matter that maybe you are working your ass off or managing your spending better.

As far as being from the US/Europe, I also agree with ElQ's report - at the end of the day, you are always someone better off than them money-wise. It doesn't matter that maybe in your home country you weren't doing that well, or that you are suffering the consequences of inflation yourself, and that you had to move to Argentina to be able to afford certain things (I am thinking about health insurance for some retired expats from the US) or to be able to amp up their lifestyle (I am thinking about freelancers here). Usually Argentinians are quite narrow minded as far as life style abroad goes. Maybe they even visited abroad, but they seem to notice only those doing way better than the average and have somehow the idea that anybody living out of South America and Africa is by definition richer.
 
He looked at me for a moment, looked at his watch, looked at me again, started to say something, grinned a small, slightly embarrassed grin, and finally asked "why? Are you mentally disturbed?"

It's a question I get almost every time an Argentine finds out I live here

10 years into my sentence and I still get asked that as well. Although I notice it's always from those who have travelled abroad.
 
There are a lot of thoughtful comments here, especially from Queso.
For the American thinking of living here, medical insurance is a serious matter. If you have not been a member of a health insurance plan here for them years, rates go wild at age sixty-six. You really need to find out what health insurance will cost you now and at age sixty-six if you are now under that age. This of course will be an additional cost as you are covered by Medicare if you are in the US.

My personal feeling is that coming here at your age will be stressful at a time in life when you need peace. Argentina is going to be years going through more and more changes. No matter how successful Macri is (if at all), progress will be slow and you will have to live through the process which will be tough in my view.
 
No matter how successful Macri is (if at all), progress will be slow and you will have to live through the process which will be tough in my view.

20 years they reckon before any form of stability can be achieved. And that's being optimistic I'd say.
 
very good report El Queso.

Queso's comment - [background=rgb(252, 252, 252)] People here want to live for free, without having to work, for a great part of the population.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]My Comment - After living here for several years, and being a world traveler and worked proofessionally with over 30 different nationalities in my life. I can say this - The Argentines are the MOST lazy race I have ever encountered in my whole life! Period[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Queso's comment - [/background]Obviously, I have no idea what kind of family your wife comes from. I can comment, however, on how many family situations I've seen here, and particularly when a person is married into a family who is from the US, or Europe, etc. Families here demand so much from their members, as far as support for this ailing relative, or that sick brother, or the uncle who lost all of his money on some deal gone bad.

My Comment - This is 100% true. I have seen this so much. Whenever I have tried dating here, I have always encountered women with family issues such as this mentioned above and I did not go ahead with the relationship because I do not want to be a ATM machine to my gf's or future wife's family. I rather be single! Life is beautiful and there is so much to achieve in this small life than being a ATM to some pretty's girl's family even if she loves you genuinely. This is one MAJOR hassle dating women from here unless you find one of the rich ones.
 
Don't forget about the elderly mother that you will be expected to care for since nursing homes are almost universally equated with torture chambers in Argentina. Most of the other members of the family will be too busy with their lives and a "yanqui jubilado" is viewed with $ signs for eyes.

In your thinking that a family can offer support to you and your wife, much will be expected of you as well.

You can go from being a "divino" when you are helping others here to an "hijo de p#*ta" in the speed of light when you get weary of being taken advantage of and quit being so giving.

Make sure you are clear how things will be from the beginning since family can be a blessing as well as a nightmare.
 
Back
Top