Seriously Thinking Of Retiring In Ba

[Ries]

What do you expect from people living by the rule "Me me me me me first, f*?@ the rest"?

funny, that is not my experience at all.
I have made some very good friends over the nine years I have been spending time in Argentina.
At least a half dozen of whom would lend me money without a qualm.
Would let me stay at their house if I needed to.
Would lend me a phone.
I have friends who have taken me to their doctor, translated for me, and paid the bill, when I had a minor health emergency.
I have friends who will gladly drive me where I need to go in their car.
I have friends who have invited me to special family holidays again and again, usually where my wife and I are the only non-family members.
I have "friends" who are store owners and business people, who have given me discounts, gifts, and special treatment.
I have neighbors who treat me well every time I see them, even if its been nine months.

Certainly, in Argentina, there are selfish people, hustlers, crooks, and sleazebags.
Just like in every other country.

But my experience has not been that its a country of me me me.
In fact, in the scenes I spend my time in- blacksmithing, art, music, architecture, fashion, and education- I continually come across generosity, community, charity, and friendship.
I often attend events that are non-profit, where its obvious everyone involved is PAYING to help the greater community.

I am sure that, if you sought it out, you could find drug dealing gangsters, horribly greedy store owners, and selfish assholes.
Here, there, and everywhere.

But its also true that you can find great people as well.

You hit what you aim for.
A man sees what he wants to see, and disregards the rest, as Bob Dylan said.

 

[sergio]

Jantango, PAMI would not help the American considering retiring in BA. You have to have lived ten consecutive years in Argentina. You can't have any pension (he would surely have Social Security and possibly a private pension). Also if you are not receiving an Argentine jubilacion, PAMI or whatever in Argentina, you don't qualify for the discounts that exist.

Agreed that medicine in the US does not adequately stress prevention but there are more and more doctors paying attention to diet and nutrition. Patients too need to inform themselves about diet and exercise. It doesn't take a lot of education to figure out the importance of eating well and exercising.

 

[mjohnstone]

http://www.buenosaires.gob.ar/salud/cobertura-portena-de-salud

I can't find any reference to number of consecutive years living in Ciudad de Buenos Aires. Only mentions that you must be a resident in Ciudad de Buenos Aires and have a DNI or be in the process of getting your DNI in which case you must provide a copy of an invoice of a service with your name (aka Cablevisión, Edenor/Edesur, phone, Arnet/DirecTV, etc.) or "certificado de domicilio" issued by Policía.

 

[Girino]

funny, that is not my experience at all.
I have made some very good friends over the nine years I have been spending time in Argentina.
At least a half dozen of whom would lend me money without a qualm.
Would let me stay at their house if I needed to.
Would lend me a phone.
I have friends who have taken me to their doctor, translated for me, and paid the bill, when I had a minor health emergency.
I have friends who will gladly drive me where I need to go in their car.
I have friends who have invited me to special family holidays again and again, usually where my wife and I are the only non-family members.
I have "friends" who are store owners and business people, who have given me discounts, gifts, and special treatment.
I have neighbors who treat me well every time I see them, even if its been nine months.

Certainly, in Argentina, there are selfish people, hustlers, crooks, and sleazebags.
Just like in every other country.

But my experience has not been that its a country of me me me.
In fact, in the scenes I spend my time in- blacksmithing, art, music, architecture, fashion, and education- I continually come across generosity, community, charity, and friendship.
I often attend events that are non-profit, where its obvious everyone involved is PAYING to help the greater community.

I am sure that, if you sought it out, you could find drug dealing gangsters, horribly greedy store owners, and selfish assholes.
Here, there, and everywhere.

But its also true that you can find great people as well.

You hit what you aim for.
A man sees what he wants to see, and disregards the rest, as Bob Dylan said.

Yes, but these were people who knew you. What about how people care about the common goods?
The indifference towards the collective "people" who are perceived as others?

They shit their dog on the sidewalks, throw used tissues, plastic spoons, leaflets, etc on the street. When they drive they are the selfish people ever. They HAVE TO pass before a pedestrian crosses the street, no matter if it is pouring rain or there are 40°C or if there are elderlies, wheelchairs or children involved.
How many times have you seen a car stopping at a crosswalk to let the pedestrians cross?

Have you ever seen the parking of an Argentine supermarket? They abandon their cart in the next parking space (helloooo? Maybe someone would like to park a car in there?!)

I see people "hitting" the turnstiles at train stations not understanding that they have to PAY to access the platform. When they have to leave the platform at their destination, only a few actually pass the SUBE card to exit. Most of them just hit the emergency exit (rich, poor, young or old.... this trait is very homogeneous).
If there is someone from Trenes Argentinos checking the turnstiles, there is always someone asking to enter/exit the emergency exit because "they forgot" their SUBE at home, or "they forgot" to recharge it. Often the same people that should check the turnstiles are just checking their cellphone. They avoid confrontation and simply let people pass at request. I have been tempted to ask them "Wake up! Who do you think that pays your salary? Me or them?!".

They seem unable to figure our how recycling works... there is always a mixup of things in the recycling bins. When there is a smart and advanced law (such as about animals or eliminating plastic bags) they are unable to enforce it. The people actually oppose anything "smart" or long-term benefit against their own interest.
See this article about slowly banning plastic bags: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1934273-polemica-por-la-prohibicion-de-bolsas-en-los-comercios-portenos
An interviewed lady commented this regulation: "Me parece mal.Si no tengo bolsas: ¿cómo llevo las cosas? Bolsa de tela no uso y tampoco quiero usar, no sé cómo voy a hacer" <<< andáte a la rpmqtp!


Argentines are wonderful people for 1:1 interactions, but collectively are very lazy and selfish, and live off others.

 

[Noesdeayer]

Serifina;
Love your post. As someone who has lived in BA for 37 years in 5 neighborhoods what you say is true for the most part.However,I have found the the people have more solidarity in the "barrios populares" than in,for example, Acassuso where I lived in the '90s.
Argentines have a very "get it for nothing mentality".Many of them are convinced that the world owes them a liiving.You try and tell them they have one of the richest countries on earth but they screw it up themselves and they call you a Yanqui imperialista.Crying victim is a national past time.

 

[Ceviche]

(helloooo?

Reminds me of Bajo cero 2..

Its his favorite... "hello"

 

[wineguy999]

Yes, but these were people who knew you. What about how people care about the common goods?
The indifference towards the collective "people" who are perceived as others?

They shit their dog on the sidewalks, throw used tissues, plastic spoons, leaflets, etc on the street. When they drive they are the selfish people ever. They HAVE TO pass before a pedestrian crosses the street, no matter if it is pouring rain or there are 40°C or if there are elderlies, wheelchairs or children involved.
How many times have you seen a car stopping at a crosswalk to let the pedestrians cross?

Have you ever seen the parking of an Argentine supermarket? They abandon their cart in the next parking space (helloooo? Maybe someone would like to park a car in there?!)

They seem unable to figure our how recycling works... there is always a mixup of things in the recycling bins. When there is a smart and advanced law (such as about animals or eliminating plastic bags) they are unable to enforce it. The people actually oppose anything "smart" or long-term benefit against their own interest.

Are you sure you're describing BA here? Sounds like Houston, or NYC, or Chicago, or...

None of this is exclusive to an Argentine mentality. People, collectively, tend not to give a damn in a great many locales.

 

[another]

wineguy 999 - u took the words out of my mouth. And to the whole community - may i suggest we stop insulting the people and the country we chose to live in and be a bit more objective here? If one harbours so much hostility towards the place one lives in than may be it's time to consider moving some place else? And if one's reason for living here is taking advantage of the lower cost of living and cheap / free healthcare than may be one should use the time spent on outlining the negatives to actually contribute to making it a better place? The first world countries have been gradually evolving into their present state over a long time so that to allow us to enjoy the results at present and they still have much left desire in many aspects, the developing countries have to go a long way to catch up and they have some more pressing issues to deal with, so can we for the very least show some tolerance we are so proudly claim to be the virtue of the modern civilization. Last but not least, in many parts and cultures of the world caring for the eldest is a privilege and people do it because it's normal and human to be loving and caring and because it's a part of the culture and centuries of tradition, not just due to the lack of alternative and that allows people to be healthier and happier till the end while assuring the younger ones that they'll be cared for when their time comes. And dismissing it in favour of 'depositing' our parents into a nursing home or a similar facility, as great as they might be in the first world countries, and visiting them once a year for Xmas, while giving the younger generation the much coveted freedom and convenience does not exactly represent the highest spiritual attitude - shouldn't the human being come before everything else?

 

[Girino]

Serifina;
Love your post. As someone who has lived in BA for 37 years in 5 neighborhoods what you say is true for the most part.However,I have found the the people have more solidarity in the "barrios populares" than in,for example, Acassuso where I lived in the '90s.
Argentines have a very "get it for nothing mentality".Many of them are convinced that the world owes them a liiving.You try and tell them they have one of the richest countries on earth but they screw it up themselves and they call you a Yanqui imperialista.Crying victim is a national past time.

I think in barrio populares the attention shifts to basic needs rather than how clean and environmental-friendly are their inhabitants. I am observing these behaviors in rich barrios, this is why I have very little faith in the future of this nation.

Taking Houston, NYC, or Chicago as example of civilized cities you are just taking another big nation with a great class gap and some more metropoles. Let's try look upon advanced societies like in Central-Northern Europe, for example (FYI, there are other countries besides the USA!).

 

[Ceviche]

wineguy 999 - u took the words out of my mouth. And to the whole community - may i suggest we stop insulting the people and the country we chose to live in and be a bit more objective here? If one harbours so much hostility towards the place one lives in than may be it's time to consider moving some place else? And if one's reason for living here is taking advantage of the lower cost of living and cheap / free healthcare than may be one should use the time spent on outlining the negatives to actually contribute to making it a better place? The first world countries have been gradually evolving into their present state over a long time so that to allow us to enjoy the results at present and they still have much left desire in many aspects, the developing countries have to go a long way to catch up and they have some more pressing issues to deal with, so can we for the very least show some tolerance we are so proudly claim to be the virtue of the modern civilization. Last but not least, in many parts and cultures of the world caring for the eldest is a privilege and people do it because it's normal and human to be loving and caring and because it's a part of the culture and centuries of tradition, not just due to the lack of alternative and that allows people to be healthier and happier till the end while assuring the younger ones that they'll be cared for when their time comes. And dismissing it in favour of 'depositing' our parents into a nursing home or a similar facility, as great as they might be in the first world countries, and visiting them once a year for Xmas, while giving the younger generation the much coveted freedom and convenience does not exactly represent the highest spiritual attitude - shouldn't the human being come before everything else?

Nothing Special.. I salute you for your post. Every word you wrote is worth gold.