Soldiers who should face a firing squad before they die of natural causes

[Bajo_cero2]

I don´t know, you are the expert about nazis ideas.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

C´mon bajo cero.... Genocidio??? You know very well that it only applies to nations, religions, and race... .

Right:

Artículo 7: Crímenes de lesa humanidad

​

1. A los efectos del presente Estatuto, se entenderá por "crimen de lesa humanidad" cualquiera de los actos siguientes cuando se cometa como parte de un ataque generalizado o sistemático contra una población civil y con conocimiento de dicho ataque:


a) Asesinato;


b) Exterminio;


c) Esclavitud;


d) Deportación o traslado forzoso de población;


e) Encarcelación u otra privación grave de la libertad física en violación de normas fundamentales de derecho internacional;


f) Tortura;


g) Violación, esclavitud sexual, prostitución forzada, embarazo forzado, esterilización forzada o cualquier otra forma de violencia sexual de gravedad comparable;


h) Persecución de un grupo o colectividad con identidad propia fundada en motivos políticos, raciales, nacionales, étnicos, culturales, religiosos, de género definido en el párrafo 3, u otros motivos universalmente reconocidos como inaceptables con arreglo al derecho internacional, en conexión con cualquier acto mencionado en el presente párrafo o con cualquier crimen de la competencia de la Corte;


i) Desaparición forzada de personas;


j) El crimen de apartheid;


k) Otros actos inhumanos de carácter similar que causen intencionalmente grandes sufrimientos o atenten gravemente contra la integridad física o la salud mental o física.

 

[jazrgz]

Bajo Cero, you and everyone here is obviously against the killings, kidnaps, torture, etc committed by the military ! Absolutaly nobody in arguing that !
Let´s cut the crap here and I ask you !
what is your take on the criminal acts performed by the guerrilas ? again, killings, kidnaps, torture, etc ...
Please do not diverge, answer a straight answer so we all know where do we all stand in this matter
scenario 1: everyone against military and guerrilla criminal acts
scenario 2 : most everyone against military and guerrilla criminal acts, you and a couple more out there only against military criminal acts but nothing against guerrilla criminal acts (version that says that there was not guerrilla and for instance no criminal acts on their side is NOT VALID)

 

[nativexpat]

Now, everybody... see why we can't dwell in the past? It's only going to divide us more ... I am all for bringing the past to the present if it is with the intention of healing.... compensating desaparecidos victims and jailing EVERYONE who was responsible should be enough...

 

[LAtoBA]

This post started with someone proposing a fire squad ... so sad.

At the end, people who are pro "derechos humanos" end up proposing a firing squad??? Are we crazy?

In English we call this hyperbole. I doubt very seriously he meant it literally.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Bajo Cero, you and everyone here is obviously against the killings, kidnaps, torture, etc committed by the military ! Absolutaly nobody in arguing that !
Let´s cut the crap here and I ask you !
what is your take on the criminal acts performed by the guerrilas ? again, killings, kidnaps, torture, etc ...
Please do not diverge, answer a straight answer so we all know where do we all stand in this matter
scenario 1: everyone against military and guerrilla criminal acts
scenario 2 : most everyone against military and guerrilla criminal acts, you and a couple more out there only against military criminal acts but nothing against guerrilla criminal acts (version that says that there was not guerrilla and for instance no criminal acts on their side is NOT VALID)

I am against of the use of violence in politics so, I agree more with scenario 1 but I disagree with the 2 demons theory:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teoria_de_los_dos_demonios

About escenario 2, there is a confusion. They commit 2 different king of crimes. The crimes against humanity or delitos de lesa humanidad can be prosecuted. The common crimes commited by some guerrillero are under amnesty and are prescribed.

My point of view is technical. I don´t accept that somebody can be punished in any way without a fair trial. Simple like that.
Regards

 

[ndcj]

About escenario 2, there is a confusion. They commit 2 different king of crimes. The crimes against humanity or delitos de lesa humanidad can be prosecuted. The common crimes commited by some guerrillero are under amnesty and are prescribed.

It's also important to not lose sight that the crimes committed by the militar were crimes committed under the color of law, using the state's power, authority and apparatus.

This fact alone, without anything else, makes them a special kind of crime. They are more than just regular criminals. You can argue the theory that each is as bad as each other, but only if you ignore that simple fact. This was the de facto government committing crimes against it's own people.

Argentinian law, international law and all civil societies recognise this.

 

[fifs2]

Many countries who have never faced global warfare not to mention civil war often question how a citizen can kill a fellow citizen - read this trail and understand how fellow Argentineans in the face of appalling atroceties can still find reason to argue - this isnt unique to Argentina as my own poor country (Ireland) has suffered equally I just dont get it - French Jurist presented it perfectly - such horrendous acts cannot be forgotten nor forgiven for the benefit of future generations..

 

[Johnno]

My own father was born in Carrickfergus Northern Ireland and I was brought up on stories about what the real criminals (those wearing British uniforms and their paramilitary buddies) got up to there. Remembering that this was an army of invasion representing an enemy who invaded Ireland approximately 900 years ago we have, yet again, another situation worth thinking about...

Is it a case of ''forgive and forget'' - I don't think so...

Like some other families with similar backgrounds my family ended up divided between those who were for the crown and those who were for the IRA - and although the situation is different to what has been talked about here (the Argentine situation) one thing to me seems clear - if you are going to punish those who committed war crimes (or their equivalent) on one side then it makes sense that the same rule of law is applied to both sides...

Everyone seems to be having a go at Videla and company but from the little I know of Argentine history I seem to remember that the communist insurgents/terrorists they were fighting committed their fair share of atrocities and crimes as well - I might have read this thread and got the wrong end of the stick here but I don't see how justice can be applied to one side and not the other...

Just my two cents' worth anyway...

PS As to how my family ended up on both sides its a long story - ethnic English grandfather who went to NI to join up during WW1, married a local Irish girl and then settled in Northern Ireland - add to that the Scottish side of the family (my mum's) and you can probably get an idea of why I try in situations like this to see both sides - I am a British citizen and an Irish citizen - and I am proud of holding both these nationalities - but I am NOT proud of the atrocities committed by either side...

 

[dr__dawggy]

This is not Nicaragua, there wasn´t a war, it was a genocidal.

Once side, civilians: 30.000 desaparecidos, among the military just a few killed by some extremist guerrilleros.

There weren´t 30.000 guerrilleros, otherwise the history would be different.

The military just killed whoever had long hair, was at university, had any political participation, was unlucky enough to be in some kiddnaped´s telephone diary or the victim was simple real state owner who was kiddnaped and murdered for stealing his house.

It was like, well, seems there are bedbugs at home, so let´s dynamites the neigbor.

Regards

What were the circumstances that led to the military take over of the government and the "dirty war" that followed?

Isn't it true that in the run up to the Military take over Leftist guerrillas had through a campaign of bombings, kidnappings, extortion, and executions created a climate of fear and near-anarchy?

You state that only a few military were killed by the guerrillas. Isn't it true that the killings were not limited to members of the military...that bombings killed women and children and that kidnappings and executions of non-military executives of corporations occurred prior to the military take over?

Isn't it also true that the Military take over was a reaction to this climate of fear and lawlessness?

Isn't it further true that the reason Argentina did not become like Nicaragua is because the Military effectively suppressed these leftist groups, who had in mind exactly the sort of wide spread guerrilla warfare that took place in other countries in Latin America?

As I have stated earlier in this thread, none of this excuses the ruthlessness of the Military regime or their crimes against humanity.....but it does serve to place the events that led to Military rule in the context of the times..and goes a ways toward explaining why many ordinary citizens were willing to turn a blind eye to the actions of the government.....they were willing to exchange stability and order for a descent into anarchy and possible life under another Cuban style leftist dictatorship.