Soldiers who should face a firing squad before they die of natural causes

[jazrgz]

As far as I know, extremist left political factions in this country used to kill and kidnap but raping, torturing women, men, pregnant women and hers unborn children was exclusive an standard practice of the militar and para-militar forces of the dictatorial government.

Of course torturing, this is one of their M.O. Of course they torture !! about raping women, dont know of any particular case (i can imagine then that even though they killed, kidnapped and tortured they were decent enough not to rape..good for them i guess). As far as stealing babies, i dont think so, they would just killed them along with the women baring them, it´s a lot easier..again, i guess!!)

These are common crimes under common laws. They were prosecuted, found guilty and they spent many years in jail. In fact, they attacked Tablada during the 90´, I can´t remember when exactly, they were prosecuted for this new crime and found guilty again.

Found guilty and put to jail ??? only the idiot ones, the lowest ranks perhaps, the leaders and promoters of these groups are all very much free and enjoying very wealthy (sorry, meant healthy) lives here and abroad ! (many of them are actually part of our current populist administration...verbitsky, garre, and many others)
So, again, kidnapping, torturing and killing, in the name of comunism again both democratic and also dictatorial governments is common crime !! nice !! how conveniant btw !!!

You have low knowledge of our history.
There was not a war, the military killed a few prisioners who were guerrilleros, there were just a few of them. But they killed many people who´s only crime was to be young.

hmmmm, i dont know much about history ?? please go through these (and this is just one group) and then tell me again show know little of history:

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ej%C3%A9rcito_Revolucionario_del_Pueblo (spanish version)

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ar}erp.html (english version)

Again, not sure if it´s on purpose or not, but really, this fact you should know about and include in the context but talking about the 70´s, otherwise is completaly biase and one-sided for instance, not valid at all !

Remember, prisioners cannot be tortured, killed or raped....or you disagree with me?

Again throwing pointless punches to change the subject. I do not disagree with this, in fact, you disagree since you are so eagarly defending armed forced that did those things as well ! i condemn both parties for doing it, you only condemn one side and protect/defend the other....hmm, again, talking about double standards !!

Regards

 

[French jurist]

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicio_a_las_Juntas

They got condemned in 1985 for other crimes (Videla & co did not go to jail. Videla entered jail in 2008).

They have now been prosecuted for other crimes (including systematic abductions of babies = estimated number of 500 among which 102 have been formerly identified & reunified with their families).

For those 500 Argentineans around 28/34 years old, I guess it's not too much to ask that the ones responsible for this finish their life (they are old already, it will be 10/15 years) in jail while themselves will have to deal with the psychological consequences for all their life.

But well, if you think it's no big deal to proceed to systematic abductions of babies based on ideology, that's fine with me

 

[fedecc]

They got condemned in 1985 for other crimes (Videla & co did not go to jail. Videla entered jail in 2008).

Videla was in prision from 85 to 90 when Menem passed the amnesty law. Later he spend 10 years in house arrest.

In any case, the only one defending criminals here seems to be you. Never in my posts i said the military shouldnt be trialed or that they should be released. I said the terrorist should be trialed as well, which for some weird reason you opposse.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

My facts are correct. One of the killers was released by a judge, but all of them were amnestied by Menem (along with the military). Some years later, the amnesty for the military was removed, but for the terrorist not. Now thats biased, my facts are not.

You are missing some "small" details. The "amnesty" happend after "semana santa" which is an euphemism to call the militar rebelion of Coronel Seineldin and Aldo Rico, the "carapintadas". You also forget that the law called "obediencia debida y punto final" that stoped the criminal prosecution of the genocidal wasn´t product of a democracy consensus, instead, it happend after the "profesional " terrorist were putting bombs in primary schools for over 2 years. When I talk now about the terrorist I am talking about the military who were prosecuted.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_de_obediencia_debida
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_de_punto_final

But, the "amateur" terrorist (the guerrilleros) didn´t do anything for getting the amnesty, they just stayed in jail, so there is no reason for cancelling it.
And they didn´t commit any crime against humanity, just standard crimes.
Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

These war criminals also deserve human rights...

In fact, they are being criminaly prosecuted according to law. Remember, that´s because we respect their human rights. But they do not have the right to escape from justice.
Remember that in the same situation they torture, rape and kill you, your family, your children, your friends and whoever is in your contact list.

they have been detained for years without trial...

Here you missundertands the reason of the preventive detention.
According to international human right standards, preventive detention only is legal if:
1) They try to escape
2) They try to kill or threaten witnesses, judges, prosecutors.

They are in jail and they are being prosecuted without bombs in our children´s schools because the judges are not so naive as they were in the 80´s. Nowadays, from the former dictator to the lowest rank militar (private) are all of them in jail.

You are missing the point, these people have no issues regading to blow up a primary school to stop the trials. They are profesional terrorist. They have done this during the 80´s. They primary target for bombing were: 1) primary schools 2) Human Rights lawyers and activist 3) any kind of civilian leaders.

I understand that the descendants of desaparecidos have also been compensated monetarily...(fair enough) and that history books are being changed to present the military as evil, and terrorists as idealists.... (not so fair) and that the military sons of military men who where in service during those years are being denied a promotion, and that military schools are being downsized/denied funding... isn't that enough???

No. It is not enough, they must be in jail.

You cannot let criminals like these free because they are worst than the mafias. How many people did the Sicilian mobb killed? These guys killed 30.000. They have legal authorization to have war weapons, they have the training, a military organization and they have no mercy at all. What kind of person is able to torture a pregnant woman and her unborn child?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I can tell you, to jail all there people is the worst defeat that the Argentian mafia had have. The real corruption and criminality is regarding these people. Just read the newspapers about the aircraft that was caught in Spain with 900 kilos of cocaine. They were former military. This is just an example.

I am not siding with war criminals (I find those crimes despicable, no matter how brain-washed, blind or young those men were at the time) but the scales need to be tipped a little ....
Human rights FOR ALL

You are wrong. We have learnt the lesson. Some other countries should learn from us, specially when war crimes are being commited every day since 9-11. Should I remember you that Bush defended the use of:
a) concentration camps (Guantanamo among many others);
b) Torture;
c) Detention without legal process.

I hope he will be prosecuted too.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

. I said the terrorist should be trialed as well, which for some weird reason you opposse.

Under which legal basis?

The abduction of babies is a continouos crime that only stops when the abducted is found. Only then the prescription starts to run.

With desaparecidos is the same, the prescription starts when the corps are identified.

Presciption means the following: if a crime is punished with 10 years of jail, they have 10 years to prosecute you, 10 years and 1 day they cannot.

But guerrilleros made crimes like killing people (up to 25 years in those days) and it is prescripted.

On the other hand, they were prosecuted for those crimes and found guilty. So, you cannot prosecute twice a person for the same facts.

But the genocidal were never prosecuted for the babies abduction. That´s why they can be prosecuted now.

So, why the genocidal are being prosecuted and the guerrilleros aren´t? Those guys made crimes as wholesalers, so there might be 30.000 criminal prosecutions while the guerrilleros were so innefective that they had only a bunch of criminal cases against them.

If you have any good reason for prosecuting the gerrilleros, I would like to read it.

I also remember you that they used to call subersivos to anybody who disagreed with them, for example, people who likes something called democracy, and that was enough to kill you.

Regards

 

[nativexpat]

Bajo Cero:

You are obviously too biased and too convinced that you are the owner of the truth to even bother to respond...

You are so vehement that I can only come to 2 conclusions: you are employed by Madres de Plaza de Mayo (founder Hebe de Bonafini celebrated the September 11 attacks - nice gal - always working towards peace ).

Or you are the son/daughter of desaparecidos... (all my sympathy if that is the case)

Only these 2 scenarios or something very close would explain your worked-up email.... You are too, too, too biased (just like a narrow-minded "milico") and it is useless to argue with someone who will not listen and/or respond the way you do.

Just in an effort to tip the scales a little more and only because many foreigners here are inundated with Madres de Plaza de Mayo propaganda...

Some people claim that 30.000 is not the number of people who dissapeared (i am not saying that it wouldn't matter if there were only 100, but i just want to illustrate how things are constantly overblown regarding this topic)

It is widely known that many of those desaparecidos are living elsewhere...

Say what you want... you choose to believe that it is all black and white.... I believe in grey....

And please, don't tell me I am wrong just because I don't agree with you. That is not a reasonable argument.

 

[Amargo]

And please, don't tell me I am wrong just because I don't agree with you. That is not a reasonable argument.

This Kirchneristas are like that: they preach freedom of speech, but as soon as someone has a different opinion they start attacking him...calling him golpista, vendepatria, etc. Look at that clown Moreno, who is trying to stop private inflation calculations, only because they show the real inflation which is much higher than the lies told by INDEK.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Bajo Cero:

You are obviously too biased and too convinced that you are the owner of the truth to even bother to respond...

I mentioned many facts.

You are so vehement that I can only come to 2 conclusions: you are employed by Madres de Plaza de Mayo (founder Hebe de Bonafini celebrated the September 11 attacks - nice gal - always working towards peace ).

Or you are the son/daughter of desaparecidos... (all my sympathy if that is the case)

None of them.
What is your relationship with genocidals?

Only these 2 scenarios or something very close would explain your worked-up email.... You are too, too, too biased (just like a narrow-minded "milico") and it is useless to argue with someone who will not listen and/or respond the way you do.

I mentioned that the former military units were professional terrorist because that´s another fact. While I was at University I wrote a paper regarding state of siege. The Supreme Court leading case was "granada" who was an military expert in explosives. The President ordered his arrest because he was the leader of a terrorist group that used to put bombs in the places I mentioned looking to avoid the criminal prosecuton of themselves. When I read that I remembered that it was very usual that we had to run away from school any time there was a call about a bomb. So, I went to public library and I read the newspapers of those days. I suggest you do the same. I just mentioned facts.

http://notasfallosconstitucionaluba.blogspot.com/2006/08/granada-jorge-h.html

Some people claim that 30.000 is not the number of people who dissapeared (i am not saying that it wouldn't matter if there were only 100, but i just want to illustrate how things are constantly overblown regarding this topic)

It is widely known that many of those desaparecidos are living elsewhere...

Sure, Jorge Rafael Videla said in 1978 that they were in Cuba at the beach. Goebbels used to say that they were sending judes to the east or to Madagascar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZa49SOtLBo

Say what you want... you choose to believe that it is all black and white.... I believe in grey....

And please, don't tell me I am wrong just because I don't agree with you. That is not a reasonable argument.

I just mentioned many facts. You are free to think whatever you want and I am not going to kidnap you because of that.

However, I don´t respect the lack of honesty, if you agree with nazis ideas or genocidals in general, you should just admit it. It is legal.
Regards

 

[nativexpat]

Speaking of Goebbels... wasn't he the one who said " miente, miente, que algo quedará"?

So much for your "facts"... You sure know how to use words precisely for some cases and so loosely for others... You keep clarifying terms but at the same time you are using the word genocidio when it doesn´t apply...

C´mon bajo cero.... Genocidio??? You know very well that it only applies to nations, religions, and race...

but hey...miente, miente, que algo quedará...