Sorry but what you saw or think you saw is anything but typical. As I said, James Smart is the most Brooks Brothers type shop in Argentina. They have several branches so just pop in and take a look at prices. 140 pesos might buy you a couple pairs of socks. There are never any sales. Brooks Brothers are having their semi-annual sale right now. Go on line and take a look at prices. The quality is first rate - shirts are remarkable and cheaper, especially on sale, than far inferior quality in BA.
Spanish-American Newcomer's Observations
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starlucia
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2 words: honeymoon period.
It's great that you're content with your move, but after 2 weeks of living on foreign currency and in a vacation rental, you're still living the happy, shiny "tourist Buenos Aires." Have you even taken the subte yet?
I'd be interested to see your re-evaluation 6 months-1 year in, or at least after you've started cooking at home, done a tramite, or actually bought one of those "Brooks Brothers quality" sweaters (sorry, they may look nice on the hanger, but the quality after about 4 washes and wears is often another story...)
It's great that you're content with your move, but after 2 weeks of living on foreign currency and in a vacation rental, you're still living the happy, shiny "tourist Buenos Aires." Have you even taken the subte yet?
I'd be interested to see your re-evaluation 6 months-1 year in, or at least after you've started cooking at home, done a tramite, or actually bought one of those "Brooks Brothers quality" sweaters (sorry, they may look nice on the hanger, but the quality after about 4 washes and wears is often another story...)
French jurist
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PhilipDT said:
You're wrong, it's possible
Problem is to find the right color for the acrylic shirt afterwards.
The Argentine price argument could be run a million times and there would still be something to say. I'm sure that on this website they will try. The logical conclusion, however, has nothing to do with money.
There are many cheap places in the world. There is only one Buenos Aires.
There are many cheap places in the world. There is only one Buenos Aires.
Sleuth
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You are in reverse culture shock still. I think this quote sums it up best, "Buenos Aires is no longer cheap, it's affordable."
What people are complaining about is the prices compared to what they used to be. With 25% inflation, price increases are very apparent and the dollar exchange rate has not kept up. You'll notice it in a year too.
That being said, there are definite bargains to be had here. The menu ejecutivo (lunchtime menu) at many popular restaurants is MUCH cheaper than their nighttime menu. Sudestada and Benihana are two of my favorites for this, but there are plenty of others that do this too. Still, Benihana used to be $40-$45 pesos for lunch.
Most services tend to be cheaper here too. Maids are $15-$20 pesos a hour. We had a plumber come and it was $100 pesos. Like I said, the problem is that these prices keep rising.
A $55 peso haircut is definitely not a top salon. I pay $55 pesos for a man's haircut at an average place near me. 6 months ago that haircut was $45 pesos. Check out some other places and you'll see.
I completely disagree with you on groceries. While some items might be cheaper, the average is the same as the States. We easily pay $500 pesos per week for groceries (and we eat out/order in a lot). That used to be $400 pesos per week not so long ago.
I think you see the thread here. Earning in dollars is great, but the don't go as far as they used to.
Electronic: buy from MercadoLibre.com. If you're going to be here awhile, you'll learn to love that site.
A couple earning $10,000 pesos per month can live here, but they will be lower middle class, not upper middle class. Rent, car, private health insurance, going out, travel, etc. is just not possible with that income.
Foreigners are only allowed to sign 6 month leases by law and most standard residential leases here are 2 years. Having a visa will allow you to sign a 2 year lease, but will not help you out with the garantia. That requires owning another piece of property. $600 seems fair for a shared room. I'd think you could get a furnished 1-bedroom for around $1000.
Glad you like it here...
What people are complaining about is the prices compared to what they used to be. With 25% inflation, price increases are very apparent and the dollar exchange rate has not kept up. You'll notice it in a year too.
That being said, there are definite bargains to be had here. The menu ejecutivo (lunchtime menu) at many popular restaurants is MUCH cheaper than their nighttime menu. Sudestada and Benihana are two of my favorites for this, but there are plenty of others that do this too. Still, Benihana used to be $40-$45 pesos for lunch.
Most services tend to be cheaper here too. Maids are $15-$20 pesos a hour. We had a plumber come and it was $100 pesos. Like I said, the problem is that these prices keep rising.
A $55 peso haircut is definitely not a top salon. I pay $55 pesos for a man's haircut at an average place near me. 6 months ago that haircut was $45 pesos. Check out some other places and you'll see.
I completely disagree with you on groceries. While some items might be cheaper, the average is the same as the States. We easily pay $500 pesos per week for groceries (and we eat out/order in a lot). That used to be $400 pesos per week not so long ago.
I think you see the thread here. Earning in dollars is great, but the don't go as far as they used to.
Electronic: buy from MercadoLibre.com. If you're going to be here awhile, you'll learn to love that site.
A couple earning $10,000 pesos per month can live here, but they will be lower middle class, not upper middle class. Rent, car, private health insurance, going out, travel, etc. is just not possible with that income.
Foreigners are only allowed to sign 6 month leases by law and most standard residential leases here are 2 years. Having a visa will allow you to sign a 2 year lease, but will not help you out with the garantia. That requires owning another piece of property. $600 seems fair for a shared room. I'd think you could get a furnished 1-bedroom for around $1000.
Glad you like it here...
Yes, I dont doubt that with just 2 weeks somewhere one might have an inaccurate representation of what a place truly is and still be in the honeymoon phase, which is why I wanted people who had been here longer to see what Ive said and comment, however I honestly think my opinion will be similar in most things within 1 year or more, aside from maybe the inflation if it continues to increase as much as everyone says. On the flip side, it seems the peso is also getting weaker compared the $ and € no?
However, my POV is also reiterating the fact that I am from Madrid and am used to many of the things ex-pats complain about being the day-to-day for me. Obviousy Argentina is not as advanced in some things as Spain, but the general protocall of many things here that may frustrate are not new to me: disorganization in paperwork and in general government offices, having to form a queue for even the slighest transaction, difficulty in obtaining a lease (in Spain it is not unusual to have to obtain a bank guarantee, though quickly this is changing), and prices sky rocketing in general since the Euro. So, as far as adapting to the country I think I have an edge over the average ex pat, coming from a country that already has many similiarities in its day-to-day. On the flip side, having studied and lived many years in the States, I can see why it can be so frustrating comparing it to there and could definitely see many of my mates going crazy with many things.
I'm going to give it a chance, I am here for the long run as I've said getting my visa, and I guess to each his own and to what everyone's personal definition of ¨nice¨ is on various things. As somebody who studied sociology, I am sure that the profile and definition of what is deemed ¨middle class life¨ for instance varys depending on who you ask and what country they are taking their ideal on this from.
However, my POV is also reiterating the fact that I am from Madrid and am used to many of the things ex-pats complain about being the day-to-day for me. Obviousy Argentina is not as advanced in some things as Spain, but the general protocall of many things here that may frustrate are not new to me: disorganization in paperwork and in general government offices, having to form a queue for even the slighest transaction, difficulty in obtaining a lease (in Spain it is not unusual to have to obtain a bank guarantee, though quickly this is changing), and prices sky rocketing in general since the Euro. So, as far as adapting to the country I think I have an edge over the average ex pat, coming from a country that already has many similiarities in its day-to-day. On the flip side, having studied and lived many years in the States, I can see why it can be so frustrating comparing it to there and could definitely see many of my mates going crazy with many things.
I'm going to give it a chance, I am here for the long run as I've said getting my visa, and I guess to each his own and to what everyone's personal definition of ¨nice¨ is on various things. As somebody who studied sociology, I am sure that the profile and definition of what is deemed ¨middle class life¨ for instance varys depending on who you ask and what country they are taking their ideal on this from.
citygirl
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I'm still trying to wrap my head around your observation of high-quality/low-price clothing Seriously, please take a picture of a nice 140 peso blazer because I have no idea how that's possible. Having just been shopping for a men's blazer a a gift, the prices I saw were much closer to what Napoleon posted - around 1000 on average.
I've lived here 4 years and I do pretty much all my shopping in Europe or the US because clothes quality here SUCKS and they're expensive.
Haircut at 55 pesos? Not sure I would trust that salon (maybe different for a man). A wash and blow dry is 70 pesos at my neighborhood salon, much less a haircut.
As for the rest - glad you love it and hope you continue to enjoy it.
Seriously, please take a picture of a nice 140 peso blazer because I have no idea how that's possible. Having just been shopping for a men's blazer a a gift, the prices I saw were much closer to what Napoleon posted - around 1000 on average.I've lived here 4 years and I do pretty much all my shopping in Europe or the US because clothes quality here SUCKS and they're expensive.
Haircut at 55 pesos? Not sure I would trust that salon
(maybe different for a man). A wash and blow dry is 70 pesos at my neighborhood salon, much less a haircut.As for the rest - glad you love it and hope you continue to enjoy it.
Yet another one wanting to know about the 140 peso blazer! I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that as a true price for a product that will actually last.
You are definitely in the honeymoon period, enjoy it! It certainly doesn't last forever, and I doubt your perspective will be the same after one year -- the first time you have to renew a 6 mos lease and get hit with one or two months commission and a 15-25% increase in rent is often when people start to change their mind about the affordability factor, when thanks to comissions and increases what started as a 600 dollar a month place is suddenly 875 a month (600 + 25% increase + 1 month commission / 6 mos = 875 bucks a month...). This is the pain of not having a garantia, you face increases with pretty much every 6 mos renewal.
You are definitely in the honeymoon period, enjoy it! It certainly doesn't last forever, and I doubt your perspective will be the same after one year -- the first time you have to renew a 6 mos lease and get hit with one or two months commission and a 15-25% increase in rent is often when people start to change their mind about the affordability factor, when thanks to comissions and increases what started as a 600 dollar a month place is suddenly 875 a month (600 + 25% increase + 1 month commission / 6 mos = 875 bucks a month...). This is the pain of not having a garantia, you face increases with pretty much every 6 mos renewal.
Mano Negra
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@Napolean: I have yet to go to La Cabaña Las Lilas but have heard great things so its good to know these things. So then, a good steak runs about 280 pesos per person at this establishment?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't bother with Las Lilas, other than for a nice waterside lunch in the summer. La Brigada in San Telmo has much better meat. Also meat quality at La Cabrera seems to be pretty poor now.
With respect to the somewhat dismissive remarks that you are currently enjoying a "honey moon period" which is destined to end once you become familiar with "real life", I would ignore them. I've been here 2 years now and love it as much as when I first arrived, and that was after 13 years of spending a month or 2 here each year. The advantages of this city far outweigh the disadvantages.
I wouldn't bother with Las Lilas, other than for a nice waterside lunch in the summer. La Brigada in San Telmo has much better meat. Also meat quality at La Cabrera seems to be pretty poor now.
With respect to the somewhat dismissive remarks that you are currently enjoying a "honey moon period" which is destined to end once you become familiar with "real life", I would ignore them. I've been here 2 years now and love it as much as when I first arrived, and that was after 13 years of spending a month or 2 here each year. The advantages of this city far outweigh the disadvantages.
