thinking of moving to argentina

HotYogaTeacher said:
I have been in Buenos Aires for a while and am planning my escape. I very much dislike living here. I am a happy person, have good friends and a nice social life and money is not the issue. I find Buenos Aires in particular and Argentina in general to be an ugly, charmless, cold place. It is dirty and falling down, the workmanship and pride that people feel in other places I've visited and lived (yes, all over the world including extensively in Mexico) is just not here. I find the city loud, crowded and rude. I hate not being able to buy nice things. Everything is very expensive and is not well made and people here just accept that. The service is terrible, the air is dirty and things are no cheaper according to my UK friends if you live here. Don't come.
If you love tango, latin culture including the men and all their issues and the women and all theirs, if you hate having nice things and are willing to spend a great deal of money to end up living 1/2 the life you had at home, go ahead. Otherwise, stay home. As a learning experience it has been wonderful. I wouldn't undo it, but it has been very hard.

Peace.


It's unfortunate you're leaving, but I think your post reflects one of the stages that pretty much every foreigner goes through in BA. Are you sure you're not just going through a tough time of it, many people do have their first "OMG I'm living in a hellhole!" moment about 9 months in (looks like you've been here about that long?) Take comfort that you are not alone! The following is meant to be humourous, it's my analysis of the Stages of Progression for the average expat (no formal research here, just have been here a few years and witnessed more than a few dozen expat friends coming and going, while I just seem to stay and stay and stay....)

Stage I: arrival - 3 months: Euphoria. Wherein the New Arrival walks around absolutely loving everything about the city, can't get over how cheap everything is, thinks that the locals are SO friendly etc etc. (takes about 3-6 more months before they realise friendly and friends are not same thing)

Stage II: 3 - 6months: Quiet Contentment growing to Soft Criticism by the end of the stage. While still enjoying their experience, the Not-So-New Arrival is now starting to remove their rose coloured glasses and is noticing some of the cracks! While things are still great, conversations revolve around "I can't believe they don't have [fill in blank]" "You wouldn't believe the amount of [expletive] I had to go through to do [blank]" and for the more negative, "[Blank] is just so [expletive expletive expletive] here!!!!"

Stage 3: 6-9 months. The Short Termer and Long Termer start to develop along diverging paths... in Stage 3 we may witness increased negativity due to first jumps in rent and expenses after the short-term contract expires, accompanied by realisation that finding a job after landing was not a good plan and that the local salary they may be lucky enough to be receiving can in no way afford them the luxurious Expat lifestyle they had expected to enjoy when they first arrived.

At this point the Short Termer usually starts to contemplate whether to stay on. If they can find another equally nice apartment without a huge increase, or convince their owner not to jack everything up by a gazillion percent, they'll probably stay on. If this first experience with the end of contract goes poorly, general opinions of the city tend to start going down hill.

Stage 4: 9 months - 1 year. The Challenge. In my experience those that make it to the 1st year mark tend to stay. Their next challenging period will not come up for about another year after that. How they survive in BA from now on will depend on how much they want to integrate and in what ways they decide to make their forays into putting down some permanent roots.

In the 9 - 12 months period however, Those That May Not Make It become increasingly obvious, frequently beginning their conversations with "In my country, [fill in blank] is such better quality than here." As they take the decision to get out of BA, spending time with the Departing One becomes incredibly difficult for any Local or Expat that likes BA as they find themselves listening to a constant tirade against Argentina delivered by the Departing One.

As the date of departure nears, conversations generally begin "When I get back to my country, first thing I'm going to do is get myself some decent [blank]" "In my city, you can get [blank] that is just so much better than here and you don't have to put up with any of the [expletive] to get it" and "There's no way I'll miss this place, [blank] is [expletive], [blank] is [stronger expletive] and don't get me started about the [expletive expletive expletive] [blank]!!!!"

At this point the Departing One leaves Argentina.



However this is not the last stage, as the last stage is of course:

Stage 5: Blind Nostalgia. Expect this to show up anytime between a few months and one year of departing BA. Any Expat that stays on in BA and stays in touch with the Departed One can expect to receive phone calls and emails wherein the Departed One completely contradicts all of the opinions that they delivered in Stage 2 through 4 and begins to ache for a Buenos Aires that they may or may not have even lived in!

-----

I've witnessed the above progression many a time over (and I was definitely one of those Annoying Stage 1-ers at one point!) Buenos Aires is not for everyone. Once you're done with BA, you're done. Time to get out. I have yet to actually have any of my friends move back after being away yet, although I do have many who are in Stage 5, and one friend that is determined to be back here within one year (even though when she left 2.5 years ago she was completely anti-Argentina and hasn't yet stepped foot in the city again!)

To be honest, probably part of the reason I've made it this long here is because I've still actually never taken the decision to stay at all! (3 years in and counting... )
 
HotYogaTeacher said:
I have been in Buenos Aires for a while and am planning my escape. I very much dislike living here. I am a happy person, have good friends and a nice social life and money is not the issue. I find Buenos Aires in particular and Argentina in general to be an ugly, charmless, cold place. It is dirty and falling down, the workmanship and pride that people feel in other places I've visited and lived (yes, all over the world including extensively in Mexico) is just not here. I find the city loud, crowded and rude. I hate not being able to buy nice things. Everything is very expensive and is not well made and people here just accept that. The service is terrible, the air is dirty and things are no cheaper according to my UK friends if you live here. Don't come.
If you love tango, latin culture including the men and all their issues and the women and all theirs, if you hate having nice things and are willing to spend a great deal of money to end up living 1/2 the life you had at home, go ahead. Otherwise, stay home. As a learning experience it has been wonderful. I wouldn't undo it, but it has been very hard.

Peace.

If it's any comfort I would guess 80% of people who move overseas end up back in their home country within 2 years. Before we moved there we were actually warned about problems living there by some in-laws, diplomats who were living in B.A at the time. They are South Americans and had lived in several countries in S.A. but didn't care for Argentina all that much. They have since been transferred to another country and were happy to leave. I think whether or a person will like it there depends on your perspective.

This is a generalization but my impression from this site and from other people is that B.A. is very popular with the under 30 set, it's a 7 day a week party that never stops. If I were still 20 I would probably think B.A. is the greatest place in creation. Those folks are having a great time. Living standards is probably not the highest priority.

For older folks perhaps looking for something a bit more mature there are fewer things that appeal in B.A. The shortcomings and problems of living there become more apparent the longer you are there without any of the offsetting advantages a younger person feels.

Also an older person generally has had more experiences which they can compare. I noticed you had lived elsewhere before coming to B.A., for me Argentina was the 3rd country I had lived in 6 years.

Best of luck on finishing up there and have a safe trip back to the U.K.
 
syngirl, that post is brilliant.

If you will allow me: I believe I am in Stage 6 - 5 years and nearing the 'Heart of Darkness' - actually facing tramites as an enjoyable challenge.

where next?
 
You might consider the Bariloche area. We live outside the city center, close to the hiking trails and copious other recreation opportunities, as well as many fine dining options. We can honestly say we increased our quality of living and reduced our monthly overhead substantially from our lives back in California. Furthermore, if all hell breaks loose like others believe, one would think Patagonia won't be as hard hit as a big city. Feel free to contact me for more info. Suerte!
 
Fishface said:
syngirl, that post is brilliant.

If you will allow me: I believe I am in Stage 6 - 5 years and nearing the 'Heart of Darkness' - actually facing tramites as an enjoyable challenge.

where next?


LOL! OMG that's great. Somewhere along the line there's also the secondary characteristics that develop, such as the Selective Peripheral Vision and Hearing, during which time one's eyesight becomes acutely sensitive to where the dog poop is lying on the street and yet the eyes and ears manage to completely ignore the fact that there are small children literally sliding around the floor at your restaurant while a drill is tearing up the sidewalk out front.
 
Fettucini said:
just like any third world city in the world.

Sorry to ask, but would you really consider Buenos Aires '3rd world'? Having never been, and only gleaning whatever impression I can on these forums before I move down in February, I guess I'm curious!
Thanks muchly
 
Wikipedia considers it to be Third World. My friends and I were debating whether it was a true third world. I would classify as second world.
If you move in the North Zone..you will experience more Argentina style than living in an expat area. Have you been to BA for longer than a week? You should defiantly visit for a longer time to see the different areas.
 
criswkh said:
If you move in the North Zone..you will experience more Argentina style than living in an expat area. Have you been to BA for longer than a week? You should defiantly visit for a longer time to see the different areas.


This is good advice, and the other recent replies are certainly helpful to those who might be "thinking of moving to Argentina" in the future. But I wonder how many have checked the dates. The original question was posed almost two years ago by someone who never posted again and probably isn't reading our replies now.

I wonder what role (if any) this forum played in their decision not to post again...and probably not move to Argentina.
 
In fact I've never been to Argentina, and never even to South America. I'm having a slightly premature mid-life flip-out, and so doing something perhaps a little silly. I've lived in Prague as an expat for over 4 years though, so have experienced the kind of stages laid out in Syngirl's post (although of course not entirely the same, and probably not to the same extremes as found in Bs As). Prague is pretty forgiving as a place to be an expat, and I'm ready for something a little more challenging :) I'm doing my best not to sound too naive, but perhaps I'm failing miserably.

One thing though - is Bs As 'full' of expats? It's one thing that kind of annoys me about Prague, is that about 15% of the population is foreign. Is it the same there?
Have a good weekend!
 
richforsyth said:
. . . . Bs As 'full' of expats? It's one thing that kind of annoys me about Prague, is that about 15% of the population is foreign. Is it the same there? . . . .
No, it isn't. Gran Bs. As. is much, much larger -- a population of about twelve millions, I think -- though at times, especially in parts of Recoleta and Palermo, there do seem to be a great many anglophones and other foreigners.
 
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