Totally Disgusted

HeyBA said:
Indeed, and some other big differences are that the legal framework doesn't accord the same rights of self-defense as in the US.

Although the keystone cop vibe of some law enforcement here will feel great if the US keeps ramping up its police state measures.

HeyBA is exactly correct. For all intent and purposes, the judicial system in Argentina is broken and simply doesn't work. Trust me on this one. I lived in Argentina 7+ years and can give all kinds of examples. The legal and judicial system doesn't really exist in Argentina.

Say what you want about the USA but the judicial system here for the most part works very well and you have recourse if you have problems. Not so in Argentina for the most part.
 
It works in the US, for the little guy, as long as he's not going against the big guy, especially a big bank.

Still, nothing quite as horrifying as being intimidated or victimized by cops, or even witnessing it. And I mean horrifying, demeaning, enraging in the true senses of those words.

Still, it seems to me there's lots of good cops here on a day to day basis. It's probably just that the good ones can't fight corruption any better than ranters like us on the expat board can.

Also, although there's lots of gasping about street criminals working with the police, I don't think it taints the character of them as much as we'd like to think. The police probably don't have the man power to actually police all the poor people in BA, so they cut deals with crime rings that then guard their turf against other thieves, on the understanding that violence and serious incidents should be limited. It's been explained to me that the horrifying violent crimes that make the papers are incidents of that de facto system failing and the perpetrators and those they work with are often dealt a rather heavy-handed extra-judicial blow by the boys in blue. This is also the source of the "don't resist" mentality, as the general agreement is that heavy violence is foregone if one cooperates.

Although, that's no palliative for the anger one may feel if they are victimized. It certainly doesn't do much for the countless stories I've heard of gratuitous violence beyond intimidation for the purposes of theft. I don't believe in blaming the victim.
 
earlyretirement said:
HeyBA is exactly correct. For all intent and purposes, the judicial system in Argentina is broken and simply doesn't work. Trust me on this one. I lived in Argentina 7+ years and can give all kinds of examples. The legal and judicial system doesn't really exist in Argentina.

This is exactly one of the reasons why people from industrial countries move to Argentina. They say they are after freedom...no controls, no rules (not saying they are criminals - rather they are looking to do whatever they want without hassle from the govt). Of course when they move to the country they miss some rules and controls.

Not wanting to compare the police here with that in the US, but police brutality is not very common in Argentina UNLESS the victims are either from a villa or have really commited crimes and maybe injured or killed a cop. To most people in Argentina being from a villa makes you automatically a criminal anyways.
 
In my experience, the cops in Federal Capital (at least in my old neighborhood) seemed to be decent people... relatively.

There was one who always stood on the corner near my house who I would talk with while waiting for the bus. We got to the level where he told me about his daughters and how they were getting ready to start university and how he was so proud of them. He would also ask me how my studies were going along. Idle chit-chat, but still pleasant enough.

Most of them, if they see you're a foreigner asking for directions, they are pretty helpful. But that's where I draw the line: I would never willingly ask them for anything outside asking for directions.

Now, when I would go visit my friends in provincia (Quilmes, Berazetegui), those cops were a complete disaster. Provincial police are a completely different breed of animal and I wouldn't trust one with the time of day. :D

In general, we cannot really compare the problems in Argentina with those in the US or Europe. Yes, corruption exists (find me a country where it does not), but corruption has many, many faces and many, many ways of presenting itself. How it is handled is a completely different story and unfortunately, like earlyretirement says, Argentina's system is shot. It functions in anarchy (anarchy in the sense that there is no governing body that forces it to behave and function) and will continue to function this way as long as the people keep being content with that.

I just finished reading a book detailing democracy in Latin America and one of the chapters dealt heavily with Argentina. After the 2001 crash (a perfect time to survey the general population), it was reported that 95% of the people who participated in the survey thought that corruption had gotten worse. This encompassed a wide area ranging from government officials, financial management, and the police. Go figure. :rolleyes:

I wonder how the number has changed since that book was published....
 
earlyretirement said:
HeyBA is exactly correct. For all intent and purposes, the judicial system in Argentina is broken and simply doesn't work. Trust me on this one. I lived in Argentina 7+ years and can give all kinds of examples. The legal and judicial system doesn't really exist in Argentina.

Say what you want about the USA but the judicial system here for the most part works very well and you have recourse if you have problems. Not so in Argentina for the most part.


100% agree
 
earlyretirement said:
HeyBA is exactly correct. For all intent and purposes, the judicial system in Argentina is broken and simply doesn't work. Trust me on this one. I lived in Argentina 7+ years and can give all kinds of examples. The legal and judicial system doesn't really exist in Argentina.

Say what you want about the USA but the judicial system here for the most part works very well and you have recourse if you have problems. Not so in Argentina for the most part.


The lack of judgement by your peers (a.k.a. a jury) is really quite scary and the vast majority of locals i have talked to think that this is a good thing.
 
earlyretirement said:
HeyBA is exactly correct. For all intent and purposes, the judicial system in Argentina is broken and simply doesn't work. Trust me on this one. I lived in Argentina 7+ years and can give all kinds of examples. The legal and judicial system doesn't really exist in Argentina.

Say what you want about the USA but the judicial system here for the most part works very well and you have recourse if you have problems. Not so in Argentina for the most part.
early retirement: I'm confused. Your profile says "Recoleta" but your use of "here" and "there" seems to indicate that you live in the U.S.
 
I always think it's telling that the phase "law enforcement" doesn't really exist here in Argentina.

They love writing laws, the enforcement part is pretty much the joke.
 
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