transering $ abroad from apt sale

[Heather G]

I'm a little confused now, after so much recent talk about needing to be a resident to have a sane apt sale here I got this response from a bank when I asked them about their services for doing the sale and transferring the $ abroad. Does this sound right?

"Lo ideal en tu caso es que te tome como no residente en el pais. Es la unica manera de poder hacer una transferencia al exterior sin pasar por consulta AFIP
En ese caso solamente la escritura debe decir que estas cobrando en $ aunque te paguen en USS.
Podes firmar la escritura con un domicilio aca, por temas impositivos."

NO RESIDENTES EN EL PAIS.

1) Tienen que abrir una caja de ahorro en pesos
Req: Copia DNI,o pasaporte, Constrancia inscripcion en CUIL o CUIT,o CDI y un servicio a su nombre o certificado de domicilio policial
2) Tiene que presentar copia escritura de venta de la propiedad, sellada y firmada en todas las hojas por escribano interviniente mencionando que estan cobrando en pesos.
3) Presentar titulo de propiedad. Entre la compra y la venta tiene que haber pasado por lo menos un año. Es por el concepto de no residente o extrangero.

Comision para transferencia 2,5 % del monto a transferir.

 

[expatinowncountry]

Your best bet is to sell it to someone who can pay you abroad directly cause nobody knows the rules and they change every day. I bought my apartment from an American woman leaving BA and paid her abroad. It was the only way for her to sell the property without problems. I had to wait because she had problems to sell the apartment as a non resident and she had to get her DNI before selling it.

 

[Heather G]

I agree, that would be best - know anyone looking? But really, I don't think I have time to wait for a perfect situation, and anyway I have residency, I have a DNI, I've paid my taxes, the sale price will be way under the "coti" limit of 600,000 pesos... shouldn't I be able to do this legally and transparently? Maybe I'm being naive, especially after 9 yrs here, but surely I am not the first one to do this...

 

[ndcj]

I agree, that would be best - know anyone looking? But really, I don't think I have time to wait for a perfect situation, and anyway I have residency, I have a DNI, I've paid my taxes, the sale price will be way under the "coti" limit of 600,000 pesos... shouldn't I be able to do this legally and transparently? Maybe I'm being naive, especially after 9 yrs here, but surely I am not the first one to do this...

If you have a valid DNI and a CUIL or CUIT and don't explicitly tell the escribano that you are non-resident and you don't need a COTI, then you should be able to bypass all the drama during the sale. Just don't say that you're non-resident. You'll obviously still have to pay the usual taxes that are involved in the sale (like ITI).

If you will receive US dollars, you can then use a financiera to get the money out for much less than 2.5% (usually around 1%). You hand the cash over to them and they wire you the money to your account abroad from one of their accounts somewhere else in the world.

If you will receive pesos, you have two options. You can go with the escritura to AFIP to ask for permission to change the money you just received into dollars or you can change it in the parallel market at about 4.70. Being that things change all the time, and your situation might make it difficult to get permission to change the pesos if AFIP knows you're no longer a resident, if you're selling in pesos you probably want to make your numbers assuming a value of 4.70 or 4.75 pesos to the dollar.

 

[Heather G]

I am a resident, I've been living here the whole time. I thought it was a bit wierd that the bank said I should do the sale as a non-resident so that I could do the transfer without consulting AFIP. Wouldn't a consultation with AFIP be fine if I were doing everything in white?

And wouldn't the bank automatically change the transfer from pesos into dollars? When I've had $ sent to my us account from Australia there was no questions of "buying" dollars.

 

[ndcj]

I am a resident, I've been living here the whole time. I thought it was a bit wierd that the bank said I should do the sale as a non-resident so that I could do the transfer without consulting AFIP. Wouldn't a consultation with AFIP be fine if I were doing everything in white?

And wouldn't the bank automatically change the transfer from pesos into dollars? When I've had $ sent to my us account from Australia there was no questions of "buying" dollars.

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood.

Yes, it's possible to do all in white. The actual sale of the property up until the point you have the physical cash in your hands will be no problem at all.

To get permission from AFIP to buy the currency necessary for the transfer, you'll go with the escritura and probably they will require some proof (maybe as simple as a DDJJ, maybe not) as to the origin of the funds. Your contact at the bank is right that non-residents can bypass this step, but if you're going to do that, which is no longer en blanco really, you'd do better to use a financeria anyway to save on the costs.

Keep in mind, you will only be able to send USD to Australia. The rate that your bank in Australia will charge you to convert the US dollars will be horrible, guaranteed. You will lose far more in the USD/AUD swap than you will in whatever path you take getting the money out of Argentina. Take a close look at which bank you will use in AU to receive the funds to pick the one that will give you the best rate (HSBC at the moment) because you'll save some thousands of dollars this way.

 

[Heather G]

wow, so I was right to assume that doing that bypass was not in "white". so I do need dollars to do a transfer, that is really helpful information.

thankfully, I'll be sending the money to the States, not Australia - that was a bit confusing because I was just making an example of how I've not had to "buy" dollars before when doing an international transfer.

 

[Markgeezer]

many property transactions between Argentines are done in cash. I would even go as far to say most do, but someone may need to correct me. In your case it's worth that risk and gain I would say. I would do it that way and just take it with you.

 

[JamesKTusa]

Your best bet is to sell it to someone who can pay you abroad directly cause nobody knows the rules and they change every day. I bought my apartment from an American woman leaving BA and paid her abroad. It was the only way for her to sell the property without problems. I had to wait because she had problems to sell the apartment as a non resident and she had to get her DNI before selling it.

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Can someone (ndcj?) clarify if this is still possible and legal? That is, can I still "legally" purchase a depto via an off-shore/extranjero dollar transfer, without fear of hassles/fees from AFIP when I later sell?

Given the new laws of 31Oct.2011 (regarding purchases of deptos by non-residents), it appears that non-residents CANNOT pay the escritura by transferring dollars from their (extranjero) bank to the extranjero/Uruguayo bank of the seller, and instead must bring their depto-purchase dollars into Argentina via Banco Central or perhaps via a Piano-like casa de cambio? True?

Final question: do these new rules apply only to non-resident buyers, or non-resident sellers, or both? I understand the advantages to obtain residency before selling, but I wonder about advantages/ disadvantages to obtain residency before buying. ndcj you seem to be the real expert here.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Heather G]

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Can someone (ndcj?) clarify if this is still possible and legal? That is, can I still "legally" purchase a depto via an off-shore/extranjero dollar transfer, without fear of hassles/fees from AFIP when I later sell?

Final question: do these new rules apply only to non-resident buyers, or non-resident sellers, or both?

In another post someone else said they verified with an escribano that it was leagal to do an offshore transfer - though maybe they were talking about residents?
http://baexpats.org/expat-life/19878-whats-best-way-transfer-dollars-out.html

And I got my residency two months after buying my apt - and, I brought the money here in cash my self and through a few friends (in under 10,000 increments) so there will be no record of anything going through the central bank so (maybe) I'll be able to answer your other question after I sell.