Venting on BAexpats...

[semigoodlookin]

not me

Fair enough, but you admit you have only spent a lot of time in cities. Even so, right here in Capital and neighbouring AMBA barrios, I know I can go five minutes in a car from my house to Caseros and find awful roads. Unlike many people, I didn't move straight to Capital when I moved here. I had almost zero money and had to live in, well, I guess it was a villa or close to it. I got to see that side of Argentina... more than just seeing it out of a window as you drive past. When those places don't even have proper running water, unpaved roads, homes built of whatever material you can find, and steal electricity from the grid, I find it flippant when people say infrastructure here is excellent.

I don't care about the U.S. and I know things there can be very bad too. I also know there are many places worse, so I agree a balanced view is neccesary. Still, let's not pretend infrastructure in Argentina is not third-world in many places.

 

[jblaze5779]

I think this might be one of the reasons why it's so easy to steal money from the government on road and infrastructure projects. They win a bid to build a road in the middle of nowhere and the end up doing a criminally negligent job on purpose to save money (mafia style tactics). No one that matters in this country will ever drive on that road because it is outside the capital city. The chances of being forced to uphold warranty repairs is slim to none. Did they build a road, yes. Did they make a road that lasts more than 6 months to a year, no.

The fed gov makes a huge deal about gas plan this and Vaca Muerta that but the roads are in such poor condition that you cannot efficiently get the product out of the field over the roads. I'm talking hydrocarbon haulers taking 1.5hours to drive from a highway intersection 15km to the pipeline terminal. They're having to dodge extreme pozos and drive on the shoulders and when it rains the transport is absolutely paralyzed (no bridges). Yeah you can drill all the wells you want but if you can't get the product out you aint doing shit but pumping news headlines.

With most roads only having one lane in each direction heavy trucks are holding up civilian traffic and stifling the main purpose of roads, to get people to where they're going quickly and safely.

With so little roads it also makes it very easy for certain social organizations to go out and shut down a whole region with a minimal number of people.

That is is piss poor planning and execution. Many of the national routes are not even paved.

 

[Ceviche]

I also know there are many places worse, so I agree a balanced view is neccesary. Still, let's not pretend infrastructure in Argentina is not third-world in many places.

All I am saying is that the use of word "third world" is thrown so carelessly here, without knowing or having lived in actual 3rd world ( self born and brought up in one of the poorest countries on the planet) ; the world is exceedingly 3rd world. Go and spend spend 1 week in Port-Au-Prince and the definition of 3rd world will be very clear. That's, only 1 example. There are many more. Argentina has good, mediocre and broken roads and pavements. Yes, Argentina is not only barrio Palermo of CABA. Yes, Argentina is quickly going from bad to worse in last 12 months mainly cos of the restricions rather than cos of the virus itself. Having said all that, all I want to say is that Argentina is neither first world and neither 3rd world. Its somewhere in between, maybe call it "2nd" world, if such a word exists in Oxford Dictionary. Its not as good as some roads in Norway or Oman but neither its as horrendous as some roads in Haiti or Honduras or Bangladesh. Finally, there are indeed some really bad examples like you indicated of utter breakdown ( I am not saying, you are lying)..all I am saying that mostly things ( median average) is better than median average of 3rd world countries as indicated via names above.

Hope, all clear.

 

[semigoodlookin]

All I am saying is that the use of word "third world" is thrown so carelessly here, without knowing or having lived in actual 3rd world ( self born and brought up in one of the poorest countries on the planet) ; the world is exceedingly 3rd world. Go and spend spend 1 week in Port-Au-Prince and the definition of 3rd world will be very clear. That's, only 1 example. There are many more. Argentina has good, mediocre and broken roads and pavements. Yes, Argentina is not only barrio Palermo of CABA. Yes, Argentina is quickly going from bad to worse in last 12 months mainly cos of the restricions rather than cos of the virus itself. Having said all that, all I want to say is that Argentina is neither first world and neither 3rd world. Its somewhere in between, maybe call it "2nd" world, if such a word exists in Oxford Dictionary. Its not as good as some roads in Norway or Oman but neither its as horrendous as some roads in Haiti or Honduras or Bangladesh. Finally, there are indeed some really bad examples like you indicated of utter breakdown ( I am not saying, you are lying)..all I am saying that mostly things ( median average) is better than median average of 3rd world countries as indicated via names above.

Hope, all clear.

I agree with all this, which is why I have mostly avoided comparing to other specific countries. Medium, 2nd world, or developing world is correct for Argentina as a whole, it is not a third world country and I wasn't really trying to suggest it is. More pointing out that Argentina, and increasingly so, is much more than the almost European lifestyle you can have in some central barrios.

 

[Wade K.]

I think this might be one of the reasons why it's so easy to steal money from the government on road and infrastructure projects. They win a bid to build a road in the middle of nowhere and the end up doing a criminally negligent job on purpose to save money (mafia style tactics). No one that matters in this country will ever drive on that road because it is outside the capital city. The chances of being forced to uphold warranty repairs is slim to none. Did they build a road, yes. Did they make a road that lasts more than 6 months to a year, no.

The fed gov makes a huge deal about gas plan this and Vaca Muerta that but the roads are in such poor condition that you cannot efficiently get the product out of the field over the roads. I'm talking hydrocarbon haulers taking 1.5hours to drive from a highway intersection 15km to the pipeline terminal. They're having to dodge extreme pozos and drive on the shoulders and when it rains the transport is absolutely paralyzed (no bridges). Yeah you can drill all the wells you want but if you can't get the product out you aint doing shit but pumping news headlines.

With most roads only having one lane in each direction heavy trucks are holding up civilian traffic and stifling the main purpose of roads, to get people to where they're going quickly and safely.

With so little roads it also makes it very easy for certain social organizations to go out and shut down a whole region with a minimal number of people.

That is is piss poor planning and execution. Many of the national routes are not even paved.

The roads may well be an issue but I've seen numerous times on this forum people denigrate the quality of life outside Buenos Aires. Yet I look at Facebook groups for expats in various cities and they seem quite satisfied with their quality of life. Sure Buenos Aires has a lot of amenities as it should for its size. But this is the same argument you'll get in the U.S. from those who live in the biggest cities and can't imagine living in a big town of 50,000, or even 500,000. To them much of the U.S. is "flyover" country without much, if any, redeeming value. All in your perspective.

 

[semigoodlookin]

Yet I look at Facebook groups for expats in various cities and they seem quite satisfied with their quality of life.

Is this wumming?

Argentina is amazing for expats, especially those with dollars. I think the 40% poor or whatever it is in the country, many of whom live outside Buenos Aires, may see it differently and may not be quite satisfied with their situation. Perhaps when people discuss the quality of life outside or inside BA, they are looking outside the boundaries of being an expat.

 

[jblaze5779]

Yet I look at Facebook groups for expats in various cities and they seem quite satisfied with their quality of life.

Are these people working jobs or retired or financially free people that don't really need to rely on completing every day normal tasks? Living here for enjoyment and living here for work are two separate beasts. If I didn't have to worry about running my full working life here I'd probably feel better also.

And as the other user stated above I used to rely on a trip out of the country every 6-12 months to reset myself but that hasn't been possible for quite a while now.

 

[Wade K.]

Are these people working jobs or retired or financially free people that don't really need to rely on completing every day normal tasks? Living here for enjoyment and living here for work are two separate beasts. If I didn't have to worry about running my full working life here I'd probably feel better also.

And as the other user stated above I used to rely on a trip out of the country every 6-12 months to reset myself but that hasn't been possible for quite a while now.

Fair enough. Most I'm seeing are enjoying the WU bump. But I don't see anyone going why did I ever come to Salta, Mendoza, Cordoba, Bariloche, and others. People on this forum often describe other cities as horrific. When I get to Argentina after the pandemic and I find that only the greater BA area has a decent quality of life I will live there. But I prefer much smaller places. Possibly Bariloche or Tandil. Maybe even Salta. I will sure investigate them first rather than just rely on apocalyptic descriptions.

 

[Wade K.]

Is this wumming?

Had to look that up. Rather than try to wind you up I get a little wound up when people start trashing the rest of the country.

 

[jblaze5779]

Story on the subject at hand.

At least I'm not the only one who sees the issue here.

https://www.rionegro.com.ar/rutas-argentinas-es-urgente-transformar-la-realidad-territorial-1774699/