Welcome To The Dictatorship Of Happiness

[Gringoboy]

They were not fired. Thanks for clarifying that we are living in a regime.

That's my word. You stole it!

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Thorsten, read the public employment law.

If they deserve to be fired or not it is a decision that can be made only after due process.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

By the way, more KK press, The Guardian:
http://gu.com/p/4fk7p/sbl

 

[Somewhereinba]

It is sad how much politics dominates this country...

 

[ben]

Bajo, you are - deliberately - ignoring the fact that as thorsten alluded, the same K mentality that led to the Indec debacle led to the bureaucracy of much of the government - one would suspect in Indec as much as anywhere else - being completely contaminated with cronyism, nepotism, favoritism, ideology etc etc etc. I am confident that on the floor in the Indec offices, the atmosphere is not substantially different than that of a La Campora get-together. When the attitude in the past 12 years had been to merge the fabric of the state with the fabric of FpV, with little to no to negative regard for the state as an independent entity from the FpV, It is very possibly impossible to clean house without drastic measures.

Macri is faced with the challenge of administering the country while respecting the Constitution. You seem to show little regard for what a difficult balance that is to strike, thanks directly to the K govt, who did everything in their power to ensure that undoing their mess would be as difficult as possible.

Nobody is suggesting that Macri is a saint. And everyone here will agree when he's crossed some real red lines. Dismissing most of Indec really, but really, doesn't qualify.

 

[ElQueso]

You know, it occurs to me that people such as Bajo and Matias don't truly understand democracy. They want a big state and they want the people who get elected to that state, as long as it is what they themselves believe in as well, they want those people to make these long-term FUBARs (well, what we see as FUBARs) because they think that democracy is made for ensuring that one party, one government, controls things for years to come, beyond their voted terms even, if they get enough votes in the beginning. It's getting those votes in the beginning that counts, you see, not the thought that the country itself may not want to continue in that direction and voted for something different later.

At least, Matias himself has said the part about a big state directly and they both argue that Cristina was completely within her right to change the fabric of the country as much as she wanted, no matter what ruin reality brought to things - hell, they don't even see ruin, they see prosperity - because she and her party were voted into offices. Matias wished he could get a cush job through contacts instead of needing to work within what should be a fair system to rise on merit and Bajo is a lawyer with contacts, who seems to have a cush position in the society already.

There is no arguing with someone who doesn't understand the subject matter.

Same thing happening in the States, where many on the Democratic side think it's OK to force issues with political tricks (such as the passing of Obama's health care plan) or outright using presidential decrees to govern immigration and gun control laws (not the number of decrees, but at least two that are pretty serious issues that I don't think as decrees are constitutional, even). Or Republicans who think we should be "spreading democracy" around the world forcefully as if they are still high on Word War II and couldn't get enough. Not to mention both sides more worried about getting votes and maintaining power than they are about the people they are supposed to govern.

What a f****d up world. When even the people think it's OK to use the tools of democracy to get their way pressed on the rest of the population, instead of simply pressing to provide a fair arbiter, and so few see a problem with that - as long as their side is in power. No, too many people think they have the "democratic right" to force other people to line up with their beliefs, instead.

Macri's not that different, I understand. He is trying to go around laws made by the previous administration to bring things back to something that can function instead of decompose over time, but he can't really do it any other way because of the concept of democracy here, which seems to be sorely lacking. Trading one dictator for another is OK for me as long as the new dictator is bent on restoring the republic, so to speak, much as Caesar claimed he wanted to do before he was stabbed to death in the Senate.

 

[camberiu]

You know, it occurs to me that people such as Bajo and Matias don't truly understand democracy.

This is what I think they misunderstand the most.

 

[syngirl]

You know, it occurs to me that people such as Bajo and Matias don't truly understand democracy. They want a big state and they want the people who get elected to that state, as long as it is what they themselves believe in as well, they want those people to make these long-term FUBARs (well, what we see as FUBARs) because they think that democracy is made for ensuring that one party, one government, controls things for years to come, beyond their voted terms even, if they get enough votes in the beginning. It's getting those votes in the beginning that counts, you see, not the thought that the country itself may not want to continue in that direction and voted for something different later.

At least, Matias himself has said the part about a big state directly and they both argue that Cristina was completely within her right to change the fabric of the country as much as she wanted, no matter what ruin reality brought to things - hell, they don't even see ruin, they see prosperity - because she and her party were voted into offices. Matias wished he could get a cush job through contacts instead of needing to work within what should be a fair system to rise on merit and Bajo is a lawyer with contacts, who seems to have a cush position in the society already.

There is no arguing with someone who doesn't understand the subject matter.

Same thing happening in the States, where many on the Democratic side think it's OK to force issues with political tricks (such as the passing of Obama's health care plan) or outright using presidential decrees to govern immigration and gun control laws (not the number of decrees, but at least two that are pretty serious issues that I don't think as decrees are constitutional, even). Or Republicans who think we should be "spreading democracy" around the world forcefully as if they are still high on Word War II and couldn't get enough. Not to mention both sides more worried about getting votes and maintaining power than they are about the people they are supposed to govern.

What a f****d up world. When even the people think it's OK to use the tools of democracy to get their way pressed on the rest of the population, instead of simply pressing to provide a fair arbiter, and so few see a problem with that - as long as their side is in power. No, too many people think they have the "democratic right" to force other people to line up with their beliefs, instead.

Macri's not that different, I understand. He is trying to go around laws made by the previous administration to bring things back to something that can function instead of decompose over time, but he can't really do it any other way because of the concept of democracy here, which seems to be sorely lacking. Trading one dictator for another is OK for me as long as the new dictator is bent on restoring the republic, so to speak, much as Caesar claimed he wanted to do before he was stabbed to death in the Senate.

Democracy is a very new institution in this country, and there have been very few handovers of power that have gone smoothly. Really it's hard to expect someone who has only lived in democracy for half of their life to have the same understanding of how elections and political parties, and political negotiations should take place under a democratic system.

For god's sake my mother-in-law actually asked me in all seriousness the other day how long has it been since Canada has been a democracy, ie she assumed that every country in the world has been a dictatorship at some point. She couldn't believe that we weren't ever a dictatorship and that women have had the right to vote for 100 years (more or less, except for you Quebec, shame on you for not giving it until 1940!). I really couldn't help but laugh at her question because honestly, a Canadian Dictatorship? Can you imagine?


[Edited to add: well, yes some Quebecers and Canadians can imagine, remembering that Trudeau rolled out the tanks in Quebec -- during the FLQ crisis when that group kidnapped and killed a politician. Trudeau (pere) invoked the War Measures Act in order to go after them.]

 

[Gringoboy]

And let's not forget The United Kingdom under The Protectorate of Oliver Cromwell 1653-1658, although I'd like to think that we've progressed somewhat since then.
Is 30 years enough to get used to the idea of a democracy? I would have thought so although the farmer I lived near in Cataluña reckoned that life was much better under Franco.

 

[Matiasba]

Matias wished he could get a cush job through contacts instead of needing to work within what should be a fair system to rise on merit

Its not that I think its the perfect way to get a job, look, I trully believe in meritocracy, I know an uncle of mine who lives in Mexico, and his wife, and the family of his wife, they are all scientific people, successfull scientific people, people who worked hard to have a very more than decent life. They gain thousands of dollars/month each other, they have a fancy house, nice cars, eat outside 95% of the times...

I know positively these people deserve what they have, because they studied, worked, etc. I know this is (by far) the best way to get things in this world.
The problem is that this way of getting stuff, this recognition, this prestige, this being someone in the scienttific community, this respect, etc, is just 1% of the way things are done in the world today. Its not the common way, its not the way that world works today, and while it is fair, it is rare.

I never felt capable of developing like these people myself. Also, when I started to get immerse in the job market, was the worst years to do, from 2001 to 2005. And then there were other issues, personal stuff, lots of things. I wish I had had a father, or a god father, or a friend who could help me, I wish I had opportunities. Even in the ministrys, while 'in the papers' you need exams and all that to get a public post, in reality that doesnt happen, that its just not true.

Thats why I wish I had someone who said to me "this is your work now". Not because its the best way, or even a good way, or a fair way, just because is the way people get work today everywhere, not only in Argentina. Yes, my uncle is an exception, there are very few people who get that far like that, when you have competition, and in every market you have that, when you have one who wins the spot, then you have lots of people who loose. And the losers, they are also capable, intelligent, well prepared, etc. Its just the way it works.