What is wrong with these people!?

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Iznogud said:
Again, focusing on the means doesn't solve the problem of the sick mind. Doesn't begin to adress the issue. And choses to ignore it completely.

It is a very common misguided reaction, unfortunately.

I've had a gun to my head. I was able to focus my concerns on the guy holding it.

People kill people.

ok, let 's agree about the second ammendment.
But a simple psyco test avoids crazy people to buy guns and it is not against the 2nd amedment.
The issue here is the lack of common sense regulations.
Let s agree too that shooters likee this are an issue in the us.

I insist here regarding the belgrano shooter, he cheat the test to get the gun, otherwise it doesn t happens. Regards
 
Iznogud said:
People kill people

And people with guns can kill people a lot faster and more efficiently than people armed with blunt objects or stabbing tools.

Around a third of the population will experience a mental disorder at some point in their life. Sometimes the consequence are fatal to the individual, and sometimes they are fatal to others. The danger posed to others by someone with mental problems is magnified if they have easy access to lethal weapons.

Spree killings have happened in the UK, but they are rare. A more common scenario is someone with schizophrenia stabbing someone to death. When this happens, the assailant is usually quickly overpowered and usually there is only one victim. Had they had a firearm, its more likely there would have been multiple victims and they would have been more difficult to overpower.

Incidents like these are horrific. But to be honest there's not much we can do about them. If you restrict the sale of firearms, they are less likely to be used in cases like these. But in the case of the US, the cats out of the bag. Getting hold of guns is never going to be that difficult. It might have put him off, or he might have just bought guns another way. Maybe he would have run into the cinema with a knife and killed less. Maybe he would have blown up the cinema and killed more. Nobody knows, but the evidence from other countries with strict gun control laws suggests that the absence of guns leads to fewer incidents like this, and lower death tolls when they do happen.

The way I see it - if you champion gun ownership, you have to accept that killings like these can and will happen. They are a consequence of people having access to firearms, and there's little to nothing you can do about it. You can't guarantee that a good, responsible gun owner won't turn bad or mad in the future.

If you are against gun ownership, you can draw a little comfort knowing that you're much less likely to be shot, but are perhaps more likely to be beaten or stabbed instead.
 
Bajo_cero2 said:
I insist here regarding the belgrano shooter, he cheat the test to get the gun, otherwise it doesn t happens.

Back in the days of that incident you could just buy/obtain the certificate (along with the gun and other related paperwork) at the LGS - local gun shop - with your purchase or have a doctor friend sign it for u.

Nowadays the rule (there might still be exceptions) is that you must do the test under a "certified specialist" and there is an actual test. You put your signature on it and they file it. That is how it is done at certain Renar offices operating at Tiros Federales (ranges).
You probably don't spend more than 10' minutes under their qualified supervision/observation.

And we're still talking about those who want to play by the rules.

Not arguing for argument's sake, just providing more specific data for your consideration.
 
Not to mention the fact that the second amendment of the constitution does not require the militia in order for a citizen to keep and bear arms, but rather the other way around. Please read carefully:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

What people seem to skip over completely is the fact that MOST of the founding fathers, when writing about this, expected everyone to own arms, and to use them in their state militias - not to be issued guns by the government to be used only for the government. In fact, many of them (guys like Thomas Jefferson, for example) specifically said that an armed populace scared the government and kept them in line.

But that's alright - many people want to ignore the constitution in order to make the world "safe."

Never mind that the actual process is supposed to be that changes to the constitution come about by ratification of the states, not laws set by mostly ignorant federal legislators who manage, along with special interest groups, to make the "people" happy. I.e., seems like it's no longer important to follow the constitution when making laws - follow the money.

Just ask Obama and the proponents of his healthcare plan as an example.

No matter what one's specific thought on the law itself, the way it was passed and then the way the Supreme Court upheld it using the "Commerce Clause" (as so many other things that have used that "loophole" in the Constitution to give the SC such wide-ranging latitude to ignore the Constitution), and as many people and states are opposed to it - where does tyranny of the masses actually begin?

I know people will freak out over this in one way or another, but I'd love to see Texas secede from the US (I've changed my stance on that in the last month or so). The government is out of control and there is no solution. The federal government was never meant to be so big and overwhelming, and it is turning into exactly what those who founded the US were afraid of.

Of course, I haven't even bothered to talk about the statistics of gun control proponents who twist the numbers to show many things that aren't even true in order to show their point. I'll not bother with that, as many examples have been posted in other threads and people who are stuck on this concept won't even bother to read less-adulterated facts because it goes against what they believe. Kind of like global anthropogenic warming.

In the end, it shouldn't matter because you will never get enough people in enough states to pass an amendment taking the right to bear arms away from the people. But unfortunately, money and politicians love to scare the population and then pass unconstitutional laws that "make things better."

As many have said, if you don't like it that the state you're in allows you to carry guns, move to one that doesn't allow it. That was the way it was supposed to work.

As far as other countries - well, each country is welcome to its own laws and beliefs.
 
Lulu-Kyoko said:
US--> 88.8 firearms per 100 people; 2.97 homicides by firearms per 100,000
Argentina--> 10.2 firearms per 100 people; 3.02 homicides by firearms per 100,000
That's a poverty issue. Poverty will always trump gun power in terms of crime rates.
 
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