Who are the future BAEXPATS?

[SaraSara]

Unless you're earning a steady income in foreign currency, it's becoming more and more of a struggle to settle down here. I am 29, will soon be finishing graduate school, and need to start thinking methodically about practical and financial concerns. I love many things about Argentina, but being able to find high-paying work in the US, Europe, or Asia makes it difficult to justify a salary in pesos that barely covers living expenses (much less allows us to travel or build up our savings.) And even though I am lucky enough to already have significant savings, I'd be a chump to squander them away until I'm so broke I have to go home anyway. My partner is Argentine, but we agree it would be much wiser to live/work in Europe and leave BA for annual summer vacations. My guess is that other foreigners who want to be strategic about their long-term plans might end up making a similar choice.

Good thinking, starlucia, saving Argentina for summer vacations. I'm "earning a steady income in foreign currency" but even so the double whammy of the local 25% inflation and a weak dollar is eating into my comfort margin. However, my whole family is here, so here I'll stay.

Best of luck wherever you go....!

 

[earlyretirement]

Unless you're earning a steady income in foreign currency, it's becoming more and more of a struggle to settle down here. I am 29, will soon be finishing graduate school, and need to start thinking methodically about practical and financial concerns. I love many things about Argentina, but being able to find high-paying work in the US, Europe, or Asia makes it difficult to justify a salary in pesos that barely covers living expenses (much less allows us to travel or build up our savings.) And even though I am lucky enough to already have significant savings, I'd be a chump to squander them away until I'm so broke I have to go home anyway. My partner is Argentine, but we agree it would be much wiser to live/work in Europe and leave BA for annual summer vacations. My guess is that other foreigners who want to be strategic about their long-term plans might end up making a similar choice.

This is such a good and accurate post and so true. I also make dollars here so it's not bad compared to those that make peso salaries. Really, if you are only making a peso salary here it's almost impossible to really get ahead, plan to save and buy for a house (real estate is expensive here in good areas), provide a great life for your family including vacations, top shelf medical insurance, etc.

Even those that I know with significant savings are burning through it much quicker here. So it all just comes down to if you are younger, thinking about your future and thinking about your "end game". You always have to ask yourself what the end game is.

Life is expensive and getting more expensive every year with inflation (in any country). So the question you have to ask yourself is do you really want to wake up when you are 35, 45, 55 with not much savings heading into retirement?

And even if you do earn dollars/Euros/Sterling and live here it just comes down to quality of life issues. You have to look at the risk/reward ratio of living here.

I'm sure I'll always be connected to Argentina since my kids were born here and my in-laws live in Buenos Aires. I'll probably come down a few times a year and own places I can stay in free.

But to me it's all about quality of life issues. All things being equal I've determined that it's a much higher quality of life in the USA vs. Argentina so I'll move out soon. I still really love Argentina and I'm sure always will.

I'm not one of those people that say "Buenos Aires is dangerous". Because I don't think it is. I do say crime is increasing here but I never find it dangerous. But it's not accurate to say anymore that BA has crime just like any other major city around the world. If you compare "apples to apples" and high end areas of major cities...you don't have the amount of crime that you have in BA. Fortunately it's mostly petty crime and not violent crimes.

But I can tell you as an American that likes to travel...I've been to every single state in the USA and I don't think it's accurate or safe to say any of these cities in comparable nice areas like Recoleta or Palermo has the amount of crime that you have here.

 

[A&A]

Well, I "just got here" in terms of the expat experience, and so sure it is early to tell. But I will say that "kid culture" here is vastly superior to that which I left in NYC. I have seen things in the park that would just never happen back home where apparently every child is a "genius", "made of glass" , ADD/ADHD, or autistic.

I think the "dollars & cents"(/pesos/euros/bahts) is all relative. 5 years ago, everywhere was cheaper (except maybe Vegas, parts of Miami and California (at least in terms of housing)).

 

[LAtoBA]

Sometimes I think we as expats suffer from tunnel vision, from a myopic world view. Is life getting "harder" in Argentina? Well that depends on who you ask and what you compare it to. For expats who are constantly comparing it to the US and Europe, Argentina may always be a failure. For the locals, they've miracuously weathered downturn before and will no doubt weather those to come. For Argentina's poor I can't imagine much has changed for them, or that things ever will all that much.

I would say sure life has gotten momentarily harder in Argentina due to the boom and bust nature of the economy here, but I can think of dozens of countries that are far worse than Argentina, and millions of people who would literally sell their children to live and work in Buenos Aires on a peso salary.

Someone mentioned the Chinese that move here as working long, hard hours. They do it because to them Argentina isn't a disappoint or failure but an opportunity.

All this to say, that every now and then it doesn't hurt to remember as expats (most of whom are from the US and Europe) that no matter what our situation is in Argentina, we are some of the luckiest people in the world. And that's a fact.

 

[MizzMarr]

Sometimes I think we as expats suffer from tunnel vision, from a myopic world view. Is life getting "harder" in Argentina? Well that depends on who you ask and what you compare it to. For expats who are constantly comparing it to the US and Europe, Argentina may always be a failure. For the locals, they've miracuously weathered downturn before and will no doubt weather those to come. For Argentina's poor I can't imagine much has changed for them, or that things ever will all that much.

I would say sure life has gotten momentarily harder in Argentina due to the boom and bust nature of the economy here, but I can think of dozens of countries that are far worse than Argentina, and millions of people who would literally sell their children to live and work in Buenos Aires on a peso salary.

Someone mentioned the Chinese that move here as working long, hard hours. They do it because to them Argentina isn't a disappoint or failure but an opportunity.

All this to say, that every now and then it doesn't hurt to remember as expats (most of whom are from the US and Europe) that no matter what our situation is in Argentina, we are some of the luckiest people in the world. And that's a fact.

While I don't dispute what you're saying at all, and agree that most of us can really count our blessings, when I say that things are getting harder in Argentina I don't only mean for myself and stretching my money... I mean that I see FAR more people sleeping in the streets, offal on the shelves in the grocery stores (not to mention inflation not keeping pace with wage increases, etc.) , than I did even one year ago, much less three or four year ago. When I arrivedit was extremely rare to see anybody actually sleeping on the streets. Now it's more and more commonplace. There is no doubt that many places are rougher and have it worse than Argentina, but Argentina compared to Argentina is not faring as well today as it has in recent history.

 

[steveinbsas]

.... Is life getting "harder" in Argentina? Well that depends on who you ask and what you compare it to. For expats who are constantly comparing it to the US and Europe, Argentina may always be a failure.

I would say sure life has gotten momentarily harder in Argentina due to the boom and bust nature of the economy here, but I can think of dozens of countries that are far worse than Argentina, and millions of people who would literally sell their children to live and work in Buenos Aires on a peso salary.

Someone mentioned the Chinese that move here as working long, hard hours. They do it because to them Argentina isn't a disappoint or failure but an opportunity.

All this to say, that every now and then it doesn't hurt to remember as expats (most of whom are from the US and Europe) that no matter what our situation is in Argentina, we are some of the luckiest people in the world. And that's a fact.

It isn't momentarily harder to qualify for a resident visa to live here as an expat. It is far more difficult income wise to qualify for the visa rentista. When I started the thread I specifically included North America, Europe, and Australia to make a distinction between expats from these regions as compared to immigrants from countries like China. There probably aren't many Chinese coming here and applying for the visa rentista and they certainly aren't active on this site. They probably aren't selling their children to get here, either.

It is completely natural for expats from Europe and North America to compare life here with their home countries. If life wasn't better for me in Argentina I simply would not stay, but if I wanted to move here from the US now (instead of 2006) I would not be able to qualify for a resident visa and would not be a BAEXPAT today. I consider myself lucky I received permanent residency before the income requirement for the visa rentista tripled.

I also consider myself lucky to be living in an area of Provincia Buenos Aires where no one is sleeping in the street and there is no violent crime. In fact, there is hardly any crime at all and I am the only expat in the area.

 

[LAtoBA]

It isn't momentarily harder to qualify for a resident visa to live here as an expat. It is far more difficult income wise to qualify for the visa rentista. When I started the thread I specifically included North America, Europe, and Australia to make a distinction between expats from these regions as compared to immigrants from countries like China. There probably aren't many Chinese coming here and applying for the visa rentista and they certainly aren't active on this site. They probably aren't selling their children to get here, either.

It is completely natural for expats from Europe and North America to compare life here with their home countries. If life wasn't better for me in Argentina I simply would not stay, but if I wanted to move here from the US now (instead of 2006) I would not be able to qualify for a resident visa and would not be a BAEXPAT today. I consider myself lucky I received permanent residency before the income requirement for the visa rentista tripled.

Steve,

Calm down. Take a deep breath and relax. Why so defensive? The post wasn't meant to belittle anyone and I'm sorry if you took it personal. It was more to remind everyone that we are also pretty lucky too. I've lived in a "third world" country before so maybe I have a different take on things. The answer to "Is life getting harder here" (which I'm not suggesting you proposed) isn't a fact, it depends on how you look at things, based on where you've lived and what you've experienced.

If you can have an opinion without belittling someone then so can I. This board would be pretty boring if all everyone did was high-five each other for having the same point of view.

 

[steveinbsas]

Steve,

Calm down. Take a deep breath and relax. Why so defensive? The post wasn't meant to belittle anyone and I'm sorry if you took it personal. It was more to remind everyone that we are also pretty lucky too. I've lived in a "third world" country before so maybe I have a different take on things. The answer to "Is life getting harder here" (which I'm not suggesting you proposed) isn't a fact, it depends on how you look at things, based on where you've lived and what you've experienced.

If you can have an opinion without belittling someone then so can I. This board would be pretty boring if all everyone did was high-five each other for having the same point of view.

I didn't take your first post personally but this one was very personal.

What's defensive about expressing a different point of view? Who did I belittle? Why resort to such condescending pseudo-psychology? If you disagree just say so. That's exactly what I did, as well as express a different opinion.

Here is a personal opinion: I think the idea that there are "millions of people who would literally sell their children to live and work in Buenos Aires on a peso salary" is an extremely absurd (if not offensive) idea.

PS: If I were any calmer than I am now (living here) I would be in a coma.

 

[texxaslonghorn]

For what it's worth, I was hardly making anything in Argentina. Now I've graduated law school and am making good money in the US. But, I was living just as nice of a life in BsAs and was just as happy.

Sure, everyone needs money to live, but money ain't everythign (and before everyone starts in with the many reasons I'm so very worng, this is just my opinion).

Regardless of all the "terrible problems" in Argentina, i can't wait to move back.

 

[earlyretirement]

It isn't

It is completely natural for expats from Europe and North America to compare life here with their home countries. If life wasn't better for me in Argentina I simply would not stay, but if I wanted to move here from the US now (instead of 2006) I would not be able to qualify for a resident visa and would not be a BAEXPAT today. I consider myself lucky I received permanent residency before the income requirement for the visa rentista tripled.
.

Steve,

I know SO MANY people that are in your exact same position if they didn't already have their permanent residency they would have never been able to quality with the new income requirements. But then again, that always surprises me because really the income requirements before were a joke. You can't really live here on that low of a requirement here. Certainly not with a family. Even single I'm not sure how they could.

I think it's only natural for ExPats on an ex pat site such as this to compare life back "home". I really doubt many people on "BAExpats" are from Mercosur countries or really poor countries. I could be wrong but I just don't get that impression after reading the posts.

Now granted I've never lived in a really poor or undeveloped country but I've traveled to plenty including all in South America. Really, I think that BA is definitely the best city to live in here in South America. Quality of life if you have $$$$ is really fantastic. And even if you don't.....one of the things that brought me to Buenos Aires was not the cheap living. It was the excitement of the city, the zest for life, the energy and creatively of the locals. Also, I really love (and still do) that family is so important here. THAT is what drove me to the country and a reason I'll always love it.

27% inflation or not..... those characteristics I never see changing here. Where else can you go in the world where you see a 70 year old up and drinking coffee at a cafe at 2 AM!!??

It's one of the reasons why I love this city. I think many Expats would agree. It's a great city so I always see some Expats here although I think the profile of the typical Expat is changing and has been evident over the last few years.

When I moved here 7 years ago you had younger expats bragging how cheap it was. I don't see that now.... And that is ok...