Young Expat Or Fool?

[ajoknoblauch]

Knowing you both only from the forum, I don't know how I could have summed up your personalities any more succinctly. I believe you could indeed be the two polar opposites of the Argentina experience! Bravo!!

I propose we add a new field to our baexpat profiles where we rate ourselves from 1 to 10 on the ajoknoblauch-ceviche scale.

You read far too literally.

 

[khairyexpat]

My 2 cents :

Without going into much details, ... If my dad is not rich, I´d be forced to make the hard choice:
.................. Pay the piper NOW or pay LATER.

I speak for myself, the decision is crystal clear, not a single shadow of a doubt, not for a second I´d think twice, absolutely .. categorically ... definitely .. decision is already made for me and cast in stone .. case closed .. no further discussion ...
.................. I´d choose to pay NOW.

Argentina is for relaxing, partying having fun and good time. ... It´s a great place to lay back, hang your hat and put your feet up.
I´d never ever think about starting life and career in Argentina. Tempting, seducing, ... but I´d never allow it to cross my mind.

Of coarse we all have very different POV´s ... how we live our own lives.
Life is your very own experiment !!!!!!! .. not a text book !!
You too, .. will have to make your own choices (if you are not from a wealthy family).

 

[aholm]

Thanks all for the advice.

I understand, 20K is a fair wage by Argentinean standards. My VP, he is Argentinean but lives in Canada - but he's known for negotiating low. He knows how much he pays me and what it is here, because he is from here. I know that if I ask him to pay me in dollars, he'll tell me the same he did before - "sure, but you'll be based out of Orlando". ( :blink: psh!! - side note, if any of you have been or lived there...eh...except the downtown part is ok)

I manage myself a good lifestyle, I have a personal trainer (that alone in the US requires at least 200K a year for the 6 times a week I have it), I eat well, live in a nice apartment with a rooftop pool, etc. But if I'm taking it to dollars it won't go far. In many ways, I think I have a better lifestyle here overall. In other ways, always when comparing with dollars, I feel I may drown. I could mooch off my parents, but won't.

My worry is, do Argentinean companies pay this much? Or any other company in Argentina, whether foreign or not? I'm ok with my 20K (22K if aguinaldo is considered), but I can't go lower.

I appreciate that I am in Argentina because I feel that I am moving up the ladder far quicker than I would in the US, and I feel that I would be able to grow into a good position here that I could take anywhere for bigger bucks if I wanted to.

So, considering this is what an American company pays me, would another company here pay the same (American or otherwise)? (I've heard from locals that people who have positions that are considered really good and are older than me bag 16k a month and that's a good thing...horror to my ears). Is it possible to get a job here that pays in dollars?

Also, hats off to Pensador haha. That corrientes escape route does sound attractive. B) B)

 

[sesamosinsal]

I manage myself a good lifestyle, I have a personal trainer (that alone in the US requires at least 200K a year for the 6 times a week I have it), I eat well, live in a nice apartment with a rooftop pool, etc. But if I'm taking it to dollars it won't go far. In many ways, I think I have a better lifestyle here overall. In other ways, always when comparing with dollars, I feel I may drown. I could mooch off my parents, but won't.

You sound like such an American.

 

[kalitrillia]

The advice you are receiving here is very - if not varied - sound. On the cultural side, it's not easy. It's actually much harder than it sounds. I come from an Anglo-Argentine family and was raised in the states. My boyfriend is Argentine and we spend a lot of time here. Even with all the background I have, it's not easy. In the states we are taught to strive, to compete, to work hard, to work harder, buy a lot of things, and to "succeed". These things are important but they'll destroy you if you let them rule your life in Argentina. Here's it's a lot more about being present and enjoying the small pleasures (they're small because there's not a lot of money but it doesn't matter). It's hard to break into new social circles but you have a major step up by speaking the language already. Take advantage of that amazing asset and the more that you are willing to convert to the Argentine castellano the better.

The best advice I can offer, completely unrelated to your career because it doesn't matter that much right this very second and you have tons of time and you'll figure it out and money is just money after all, is that you get the hell out of Palermo sometimes. It's a great part of the city but you aren't going to integrate by staying there. After a really challenging stint studying in BA back in the day I spent 6 months camping and hitchhiking, from south to north and that's how I made friends and fell in love with Argentina. This country is filled with fun-loving people with enormous hearts. Go do what the locals are doing. Get out of the city when you can (the buses are easy!), take in the scenery (Argentina is amazing and beautiful), sit around, drink mate, make fires, cook food, play the guitar, play with your friends' babies, fall in love with the girls, and chill out. If you don't have time to travel take advantage of the fact that you can cheaply take classes in just about anything in BsAs. Work on your personal growth and meet people that way. If you can't relax here, you'll self-destruct. If you aren't into these lifestyle things, then go to NYC and bust your ass and have a successful career and spend all the extra money that you earn paying your rent and trying to buy experiences. You are in Argentina for the experiences, not the money. When this is all said and done, you'll remember the experiences, not the money. And the best experiences here will probably be free. HAVE FUN!

 

[nlaruccia]

Have you thought about the adaptation process once you move back to the States after having lived here? Will a company there care if you have experience in Argentina? Will it help or hurt you career long-term having left and returned to the U.S.?

 

[aholm]

You sound like such an American.

.
Bradly, absolutely hahaha, but I'm actually very multicultural. I was born in Venezuela to a European heritage, raised in the US since 5, and my parents live in Finland - rest of my family lives in Europe or Venezuela and some in the US. I've lived in Spain and spent summers in Scandinavia. I don't consider myself as having a home so moving to a random place is less difficult for me than for someone who has everything all in one place.

Kalitrillia, thanks for the reality check. I've frankly gotten really caught up in my career. I work a ton, and I'm the youngest by far in my office, so I came alone to no real "peers"- so it has been extremely hard to meet people my age. I'm thinking of enrolling in extension courses in the university to meet people also it would help my resume look better for the job change. But yes, it is the little things. The fact that I wake up, and I'm happy to be here, and walk to the subte (and just hating the subte and all the discomfort is so wonderful as opposed to all the dull driving in pristine Stepford Wives suburbian North Carolina) passing all these plazas, to get to work and I smile when I pass plaza san martin, because it's so impressive... those little things. I love it. Get the heck out of Palermo...hahha ...yeaah. will do. It's just so damn great.

Have you thought about the adaptation process once you move back to the States after having lived here? Will a company there care if you have experience in Argentina? Will it help or hurt you career long-term having left and returned to the U.S.?

Have no intention (then again, you never know) of going back to the US, to be honest - If I move from here it will be to Spain, because it's the only other place I actually want to live, or to Finland to do my masters. I'm a "grass is always greener" kind of guy who can't sit still, but somehow this is the first place I've ever lived where I wasn't in a hurry to get the heck out, I genuinely want to stay. When I think of "going back", it's in a "I give up/easy way out" sense. It's all easier there. Here, everything is so difficult sometimes. However, I do think about the repercussions of my being here, and I think they are positive. At the beginning, the questions I asked myself were: "if it doesn't work out, will I have a viable way out?", "will this make my resume stronger?", "will it build valuable life experience? (as opposed to just wasting my time just for the fun)" - and these were the basic requirements. I think it has been overall a good life decision. I have a good job that I can build upon. That's key. It had to be a responsible choice.

However, I'm scared to send a resume out here - they always ask about salary expectations for some reason, and I don't want to be counted out from the get-go for putting a too-large amount. But gosh darn it, I want to stay.

Money is a lubricant to happiness, it makes it more possible, but it's not everything. Enjoying the little things here, that's everything to me now.

And you guys are a really helpful group, appreciate it very much, really.

 

[Montauk_Project]

20,000 pesos monthly is a good salary here for someone starting out. Are you getting Argentine bennefits? (half salary bonus in August and December, obra social, days off, etc) Most make around $8000-$14000 a month. Palermo is one of the more expensive neighborhoods to live and go out in, so maybe moving to somewhere less expensive will make that salary last more.
As a young person, the most important thing for your carreer is to get experience. If you have to choose between experience and money, choose experience (later in life choose money). If being in Argentina means you have more cases to work on, more responsibility and can become bi-cultural (or add a culture to your belt, as you have many already) this is a great advantage. I work in film, and even if I go back to the US (which I don´t plan on doing) I have gotten more experience here and learned a different way of doing things. I am 34 and have directed two feature documentaries and have my own company--no one I graduated with can say something similar (and I went to an Ivy league). But financially wise, all my university friends are making, at the least, 10 to 100 times more in dollars, have huge houses, travel around the world, etc I am happy with my modest vacations to the coast of Argentina and feel very luckily looking around at peers in Argentina. But seeing my college classmates on Facebook taking two week trips to an island resort or buying a 6 bedroom house can make me jealous sometimes.
Learning to do things in a country like Argentina will give you great skills. There is a joke that whenever there is a crisis, an Argentine gets hired to fix it (case in point, the Pope) because they know crisis like the back of their hand.
If you want to go into advertising, Argentina is one of the hot places for it--always winning international awards and they do a lot of international work.
Also, to make money in Argentina you need to get into business for yourself. I am NOT recommending that you do that now, or even soon. But be aware that in the salary earning sector, your salary is high. The people who make more are not earning salaries, but profits.
Last but not least, life may get in the way of your plans. You could fall in love and decide to get married and stay. I met my husband after being here 5 years.

 

[aholm]

Yes to the benefits (I love OSDE...I think any American here will fall in love with the insurance and healthcare...) and august/december. Overall, it's not like I'm starving to death.

Absolutely agree on the advertising. To South Americans, brands matter, and that's a huge deal. There have been studies done, and all those studies tell me is that this is the place to be. My decision to come here was absolutely strategic, but it was a half-blindfolded type deal. But I'm happy.

And absolutely agree on the getting into business. I'm amazed at how entrepreneurial Argentines my age and even younger are. For example, my trainer, who is my age and I also count as a friend more than just my trainer - he trains (and has qualifications for it, not just a random gym rat), he's an engineering student, he is getting a degree in real estate brokerage and practices what he can in the meantime (I got my apartment through one of his contacts even), and on top of that he is investing with his parents to build apartments (basically his parents put down the money and he manages the project and brings the returns) - at 26! He did all of this himself. When I got here, I was amazed by him - I look up to the guy. He shames me. Maybe I grew up sheltered and everything was handed to me, but this guy comes from a good family with good means. He doesn't have to do all this. In the US, I never met anyone who did all this. We all just follow the lead. At least where I grew up. Here every young person I meet has a similar story. They make me feel lazy and sheltered, haha. I have a huge amount of respect for Argentineans. This place is swarming with think-tanks and startups. I really want to be a part of it.

In the end, most of us probably have a greedy capitalist American inside of us whispering in our ear (part of it may be my brother, who lives in New Orleans and insists I return immediately and live with him until I find a job) - easily fueled by the Facebook pictures (you are correct, I drool over my friend's new Acura and Audi cars, their new two-story homes with huge front and backyards - you have to be filthy rich to get that here!). But in the end, it's quality of life right? And it's not all purchases.

I'm more comfortable, thanks guys.

 

[Cecil Fox Palmer]

Take it easy, eventually things will fall into place. Your salary is pretty good. I don't know what branch of advertising you are into, but a copywriter in a big agency here gets between 10K and 12K.