Another Mass Shooting In The Us...

[khairyexpat]

X) .... If EVERYONE had a gun = NO ONE will be killed by guns.
Y) .... If NO ONE had a gun = NO ONE will be killed by guns.

And the correct answer iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis ...... (drums please) ?????

Uhmmmmm .... We need a super human Einstein to help us figure out this toughie.
But don`t despair, ... help is on the way any time soon now, .. I predict before the next 100 years.

Guns don`t kill.
Planes don`t fly.
Computers don`t have info.
Robots don`t manufacture things.
...
etc etc ( what a monkey wrench argument ... wow !!!!!! .... may be pigs can fly ... but not guns)

And NO ONE will ever convince NO ONE .... for another 100 years. (worse than religions).
Yet another proof ..... Democracy (Majority dominating by force) is a failed system. It will never work, ... and it never did.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

I own a Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol. It has an 8-round clip. I can fire accurately at close-range targets at a speed of one shot per second. It takes me 1.5 seconds to reload a second clip. That means at close range in less than one minute I can kill or severely wound 48 people.

My Smith & Wesson is not an assault weapon.

If someone is motivated to kill lots of people I argue the "assault weapon" doesn't make it easier. It is not a magic weapon that somehow aims itself, calms itself down, breathes by itself, chooses targets by itself, deflects police bullets magically by itself, etc etc. At close range a pistol is much more effective.

GS

 

[EJLarson]

I own a Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol. It has an 8-round clip. I can fire accurately at close-range targets at a speed of one shot per second. It takes me 1.5 seconds to reload a second clip. That means at close range in less than one minute I can kill or severely wound 48 people.

My Smith & Wesson is not an assault weapon.

If someone is motivated to kill lots of people I argue the "assault weapon" doesn't make it easier. It is not a magic weapon that somehow aims itself, calms itself down, breathes by itself, chooses targets by itself, deflects police bullets magically by itself, etc etc. At close range a pistol is much more effective.

GS

You're attempting to have a reasoned argument with someone whose debating skills consist mainly of colorful and randomly-sized fonts. So this won't make an impact either: in the US it is illegal for civilians to own automatic firearms without special ATF licensing (effectively a ban on civilian ownership). No one that I'm aware of, including the NRA, has any problem with this.

http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-laws/federal-law/classes-of-weapons-ammunition/machine-guns-automatic-firearms/

"Assault" weapons available to the public are not, and cannot be, automatic and, as GS points out, aren't very different in terms of firepower from a pistol. The silliness inherent in an "assault weapons" ban is illustrated by prohibiting the sale of rifles with pistol grips, as if that had anything to do with effectiveness.

Gun control is an emotional issue and will continue to be strenuously debated here and everywhere else. But maybe staying closer to facts will help keep it polite. Maybe.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I've tried to stay out of this discussion but....

A little background about me - I am a thirty year active duty retired US Coast Guard Chief Warrant Officer and a 10 plus year retired federal law enforcement officer (Customs and Border Protection). I am also a collector of firearms and I go shooting a a gun range on a regular basis. I am not just pro 2nd Amendment; but I support and will defend the entire document - all the amendments. No where in any of the Oaths of Office I've sworn to over the years did it say selectively support and defend the ones I want to.

That said there is a big difference between an Assault Rifle which is a select fire gun (meaning you can choose between semi-automatic or automatic fire) and a rifle similar to the one used in Orlando among other places as well. An AR-15 assault rifle costs somewhere in the vicinity of $20,000.00 USD and prior approval of the purchase by BATFE.

Now before some of you get your knickers in a twist I think the Orlando, Santa Barbara, Newtown School Shooting, and the Colorado theater shootings (to name a few) were terrible tragedies; but it wasn't the type of gun used to do the killings; it was a person pulling the trigger. I assure you that it is physically impossible for a gun to go off and kill 50 people; regardless of motivation it takes a mentally ill sick SOB to commit the murders. Two of the shootings I mentioned were acts of terror; the FBI says lone wolf/home grown; but in the terrorists minds they were for all intent ISIS terrorists. In Newton the killer was not legally able to buy a gun - his mother purchased them, allowed him to shoot them at a range, and was his first victim.

I'm tired of people's ignorance that blame the NRA, the gun, Trump, etc; when someone bombs a church they don't blame the bomb, they blame the bomber. Same thing with arson - they blame the person. I own guns including some historically significant copies of WWII guns all semi-automatic; one has a 77 round drum magazine that can be used; but not a single one of them will fire by itself...it requires a human being to pull the trigger. I am professionally trained in the use of fires; I know others who are self trained but I can assure you that given the absence of someone else with a gun to try to stop me I could do just as much damage with a 6 shot revolver as someone could with a high capacity magazined rifle...except that I am not mentally deranged.

The clamor for more gun control is not the answer. There are close to 20,000 gun related laws in America; all being obeyed by law abiding people; the criminals do not obey the law in the first way; and as demonstrated, sadly, in Orlando, a gun free zone is a killing field for anyone bent on killing people. Had there been a few legally licensed concealed firearms carriers present the outcome could have been a lot better then it was...

Ok standing by for criticism but let's discuss the issue, not attack the messanger please!

Your analogy between Bombs & Guns is ... silly.

Do you know a store that will sell you a bomb over the counter ...?

Do you know a store that will sell you a gun over the counter ... ?

 

[RodalfoWalsh]

I own a Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol. It has an 8-round clip. I can fire accurately at close-range targets at a speed of one shot per second. It takes me 1.5 seconds to reload a second clip. That means at close range in less than one minute I can kill or severely wound 48 people.

My Smith & Wesson is not an assault weapon.

If someone is motivated to kill lots of people I argue the "assault weapon" doesn't make it easier. It is not a magic weapon that somehow aims itself, calms itself down, breathes by itself, chooses targets by itself, deflects police bullets magically by itself, etc etc. At close range a pistol is much more effective.

GS

You don't think it makes it easier? What exactly is the point then? Why don't soldiers use 9mm S&Ws then? I doubt I have as much experience with firearms as you do, but with my limited experience having shot pistols, shotguns and rifles (including the AR15), I've not found that to be true. My experience is that it is far far easier to hit a target and especially to hit multiple targets in succession with a long gun than with any hand gun I've used.

 

[scotttswan]

Your [background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol also needs to be controlled.[/background]

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

Your [background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol also needs to be controlled.[/background]

My S&M is very controlled. How else could I hit rapid targets effectively.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

You don't think it makes it easier? What exactly is the point then? Why don't soldiers use 9mm S&Ws then? I doubt I have as much experience with firearms as you do, but with my limited experience having shot pistols, shotguns and rifles (including the AR15), I've not found that to be true. My experience is that it is far far easier to hit a target and especially to hit multiple targets in succession with a long gun than with any hand gun I've used.

Sorry, but not true from a tactical perspective. Anything inside of 5 meters is usually pistol range. Beyond that is usually rifle range. Soldiers (and Marines like me) carry both for a reason.

GS

 

[ElQueso]

Your analogy between Bombs & Guns is ... silly.

Do you know a store that will sell you a bomb over the counter ...?

Do you know a store that will sell you a gun over the counter ... ?

Considering that one can make a bomb with house-hold ingredients, and a little knowledge found on the internet, I'd say you're missing a point - it's way easier to get hold of a bomb, legally, than it is to buy a gun if you have some issue that would show up on a gun check - or if you simply wanted to have some method of killing and remain a bit more anonymous. But calling cwo4uscgret's well-written and reasoned argument silly is at best emotional and without logic. You may not agree with it, but your manner of debate leaves quite a bit to be desired in my opinion.

When we were kids we used to buy firecrackers (BlackCat! ) and spend hours unwrapping them and taking out the black powder and making bombs. Not to kill anyone, but it was fun to blow a huge hole in the ground near the creek and in forest where we played as kids. Maybe we should outlaw fireworks. But oh wait - you can actually make your own black powder quite easily: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Black-Powder While it's certainly not nearly usable to load for shot with modern weapons, and according to the article not good enough to load for black powder weapons with a normal-sized charge, I'm betting it would blow things up quite nicely.

Hell, we even made tennis ball cannons with our powder, using tennis ball cans as the barrel with a small hole to touch off the powder That was after we realized it was better to use the powder than gasoline - which worked quite well if you just soaked the ball a little bit in gas, put it in the tube and held a match over the opening (it actually worked better than the powder as far as distance achieved) but the ball tended to burn as well, unfortunately!

The problem behind mass killings is not guns. Get rid of the guns and people will find other ways to kill and insane people will find insane ways to kill many people. The percentage of people in a country of 300 million+ who actually go nuts and mass kill people is almost insignificant statistically. Accidents with guns are more frequent, yes, as are individual murders with guns. But with all of the other ways to kill people, should we outlaw everything? Outlaw knives (hell, we already can't carry swords and yet people still die by the knife). Outlaw planes (3000-some-odd people killed by crashing planes into some buildings - imagine what someone can do with a Cessna, a desire to die, and a high school as his or her target). Outlaw automobiles (I've seen articles about people running through crowds with a car and my God, the number of people that die in cars because of stupidity alone is tremendous).

I guess I could be considered an attempted murderer for serving my ex-wife too much fatty foods (I like to cook) and hoping it would clog her arteries! Only problem is she just got fat and mean, and I actually had to leave to get away from her! (I hope everyone knows I'm being facetious and referencing idiotic laws that would control what foods we can eat).

Personally, I'm sick and tired of people who want to control every aspect of life because they have some belief that what they believe in is right for everyone. If you don't like guns, go to a state, or a country, or what-have-you, where they don't allow guns or have more control over the guns - and there's not a constitution that guarantees certain rights. If you find the US too open in the "best" of places for guns - go somewhere else!

Here, by the way, in a country where gun control is indeed more strict than the US, and I too believe is pretty well enforced (at least as far as owning and being caught with one illegally and being able to actually buy, legally, hand guns and automatic weapons), there was a shootout of some sort not a block from my apartment in Recoleta yesterday. As cwo4uscgret mentioned, I'm pretty sure that the gun that shot out the windows of a SUV, carried apparently by a motorcyclist, didn't go off by itself and I can almost guarantee that the shooter didn't walk into his local Wal-Mart and buy a gun "off-the-shelf" (In case you don't know, there are indeed Wal-Marts here, but they do not sell firearms).

 

[mc kenna]

Gs Dirtboy, control your pistol!!! it might get out of control and kill someone, i suggest, letting the gov do that with something written on a piece of paper, i'm sure that'll do it and besides everyone knows that a real pistol is a colt .45