Another Mass Shooting In The Us...

[scotttswan]

Anecdotally, when I grew up we had guns in the house as did all of my friends. The guns were almost always loaded. My grandfather's shotgun leaned in the corner of the family room and his .22 pistol was in the side pocket of his easy chair. The other rifles and shotguns were in an unlocked gun case in the bedroom. This was in the late '60's to mid-70's. We knew not to touch them and no child ever did.

Guns were very, very prolific and easier to attain than now. Everyone - including high school kids - had a gun rack with guns in their pickup window. However, we didn't hear of mass shooting at schools and public places. If there was a "mass shooting" it usually meant a family homicide. And, when that happened everyone said, "Such a damn shame but we knew it was gonna happen sooner or later. That man/woman was a complete nutcase!" The only mass shooting I remember until the 1980's was the University of Texas shooting by Charles Whitman.

Now it is a different story. Innocent bystanders are killed almost weekly and firearms are harder than ever to purchase.

There seems to be different values these days.

Washington post found there has been very little change in the number of spree shootings since the 80s. 24/7 media probably has helped publicise them more.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/12/17/graph-of-the-day-perhaps-mass-shootings-arent-becoming-more-common/

Still doesn't mean nothing should be done to stop it.

 

[scotttswan]

Perhaps. However Charles Whitman's father was around. He was a perfectionist and extremely abusive to his family. If you want an insight into the psyche of someone who cracks into killer just read something of Charles Whitman. He left a diary. Very, very lucid of what he was going to do.. Really scary.

I can't exclude the impact of video games and violence in movies. Yea, I know there was violence in movies in 1965 but it was usually cowboys vs. bad cowboys, cowboys vs. indians, and cops vs robbers, etc. And the video games we had even into the 2000's were pretty tame. Now the best-selling video games are GTA where you get points for killing prostitutes and police, Assasin's Creed, and Military spec ops.

Guns don't kill people, video games and movies do?

 

[steveinbsas]

In an earlier post you said "the object is not the problem but instead it’s the behavior that needs to be changed", and so I was asking how you would change behavior.

Actually, it was not something I said. I was quoting from the link I provided, but I didn't use quotation marks or the word "source" in front of the link.

The only behavior that needs to be changed is for people to learn to leave each other alone (with and without guns).

This can only be accomplished by teaching children to respect the rights of others, including the right to their property as well as their lives.

Most, but not all of them, will grow up to become adults who do as well.

My favorite movie line of all time: "I'm just a guy who want's to be left alone." (Tom Cruise as Jack Reacher...who was a very good shot).

 

[steveinbsas]

Perhaps. However Charles Whitman's father was around. He was a perfectionist and extremely abusive to his family. If you want an insight into the psyche of someone who cracks into killer just read something of Charles Whitman. He left a diary. Very, very lucid of what he was going to do.. Really scary.

Ted Bundy's father wasn't around, either. In fact, he was raised thinking his grandparents were his mom and dad...and the woman he thought was his older sister was actually his mother.

He confessed to killing over thirty women, but his attorney says Ted told him he killed over one hundred women and one man...and he never used a gun.

https://www.youtube....h?v=o-OujblMRwA

I don't think John Wayne Gacey used a gun, either (33 killed)...neither did the Manson family. The list could go on and on.

Mass killings of all varieties get the most attention, much more than the killing of one person with a non-automatic weapon like a bolt action rifle (that nobody seems to want to ban now), unless the victim is well known, like John F. Kennedy.

Of course if all semi-automatic weapons (especially "military style" rifles or "long" guns) could be banned and all of them disappear overnight, there would still be death by "gun violence" (using old-fashioned revolvers and rifles) and then (following precedent) we'd have to ban them, too.

 

[wineguy999]

Guns don't kill people, video games and movies do?

No, Twinkies do!

 

[nikad]

Perhaps. However Charles Whitman's father was around. He was a perfectionist and extremely abusive to his family. If you want an insight into the psyche of someone who cracks into killer just read something of Charles Whitman. He left a diary. Very, very lucid of what he was going to do.. Really scary.

I can't exclude the impact of video games and violence in movies. Yea, I know there was violence in movies in 1965 but it was usually cowboys vs. bad cowboys, cowboys vs. indians, and cops vs robbers, etc. And the video games we had even into the 2000's were pretty tame. Now the best-selling video games are GTA where you get points for killing prostitutes and police, Assasin's Creed, and Military spec ops.

Most of these shooters are very young males. I think the influence of movies, media and video games is key. Just think for a moment how much has been produced to either support or to stress the negatives of something: wars, countries, presidents, mobsters, etc. But how many movies tried to show that shooting without a reason was bad?

How many series try to show that there are other ways to deal with anger other than shooting? You will find out that there are very few in comparison. This is because death and killings sell. And the paradigm has also changed, the villains are somewhat cool these days. But to bring this up, will mean messing with freedom of speech.

 

[nlaruccia]

Generation after generation of single parent "families" might be one reason, especially when the farther is not around.

I just want to make sure that I'm not misinterpreting your comment. You're not saying thatlack of values is due to single mothers, are you? Are they to blame for the rise in gun violence? I hope that's not what you're implying .

 

[steveinbsas]

I just want to make sure that I'm not misinterpreting your comment. You're not saying thatlack of values is due to single mothers, are you? Are they to blame for the rise in gun violence? I hope that's not what you're implying .

It's very difficult for single mothers to assume the role of both a mom and a dad. Boys need fathers to be role models and to learn discipline (not just values). Growing up in the fifties and sixties, I had a few classmates who were raised by single mothers, but they were the ones who ran a bit wild compared to the rest of us...and got into noticeably more trouble. So did one of my best friends whose dad did not discipline him in any way. Eventually, my parents forbade me to spend any time with him.

My brother and I could get away with some shenanigans with our mom, but her ultimate weapon was, "Wait 'til your father gets home."

It always worked.

PS: Since I was a kid, the number of children in the USA who are "born out of wedlock" (and/or who's father's don't play a pivotal role in their lives). has skyrocketed. My brother is a retired teacher and still lives in our home town. He taught math for over thirty years at the same high school we attended in the mid to late sixties. He says it's a different world now, and the lack of strong parenting has made a huge difference, especially with male students whose dads aren't around or simply don't care.

 

[nlaruccia]

It's very difficult for single mothers to assume the role of both a mom and a dad. Boys need fathers to be role models and to learn discipline (not just values). Growing up in the fifties and sixties, I had a few classmates who were raised by single mothers, but they were the ones who ran a bit wild compared to the rest of us...and got into noticeably more trouble. So did one of my best friends whose dad did not discipline him in any way. Eventually, my parents forbade me to spend any time with him.

My brother and I could get away with some shenanigans with our mom, but her ultimate weapon was, "Wait 'til your father gets home."

It always worked.

PS: Since I was a kid, the number of children in the USA who are "born out of wedlock" (and/or who's father's don't play a pivotal role in their lives). has skyrocketed. My brother is a retired teacher and still lives in our home town. He taught math for over thirty years at the same high school we attended in the mid to late sixties. He says it's a different world now, and the lack of strong parenting has made a huge difference, especially with male students whose dads aren't around or simply don't care.

There are a lot of useless fathers who don't parent their own children. The mothers can't take all the blame.

 

[steveinbsas]

There are a lot of useless fathers who don't parent their own children. The mothers can't take all the blame.

I'm NOT blaming the mothers. I'm blaming the fathers for NOT being the parents they should be, especially in places like Chicago (the last place I lived before moving SOTB), where "gun violence" by young men who grew up with a clear lack of male parenting has reached staggering levels.

This is not just my personal opinion. The following is from an article that was published in 2008, eight years after I left the US and the last time I was in Chicago for a visit, forty years after I graduated from high school:

ABSENT FATHERS AND YOUTH VIOLENCE

"Studies show that school systems with above-average rates of father absence have nearly double the rates of school violence compared to those with below-average rates of father absence. Children who do not live with both parents are also more likely to carry a gun, assault another student and assault a teacher. To put it simply, father absence is the single strongest predictor that a child will grow up to be violent or fall victim to violence.

When male youths do not have a father figure in their lives, they often join gangs to fill that emptiness and look to gang leaders to fill that “fatherless” void in their lives. There is a critical connection between a father’s absence, juvenile delinquency and anti-social aggression in our youths. The likelihood that a male will engage in criminal activity doubles when he is raised without a dad. In fact, 72 percent of adolescents charged with murder grew up without their father (Characteristics of Adolescents Charged with Homicide, 1987).

Boys who grow up in broken marriages are more than twice as likely as other young males to end up in jail and each year spent without a father in the home increases the likelihood of future incarceration by 5 percent (Father Absence and Youth Incarceration, 1999)."

http://dadsrights.co...youth-violence/