Argentina Cancel Its Participation On The Cruzex (Again)

[camberiu]

if you want to lead a region, you have to accept that role, I think.

Is this the Argentine mindset: You are either the leader or the follower?
The thing is this Matias: We never wanted to "lead". That is not how our culture works. We don't believe in "manifest destiny" and we are not meant to "lead" Latin America. We don't want to be a repetition of the Argentina of up to the 1970s. We are looking for partners, Matias, for equals. Brazil extended a hand to Argentina, looking to walk towards the future as partner countries, side by side. To help bring the other countries of the region together, as equals too, so we could all rise together, prosper together, as a community, without masters and subjects. The "Ks" rejected that. Most of the Argentines reject that. Maybe your political mindset only accepts this lead or led dichotomy. If you can't lead, maybe you can only see yourself as a passive subject. It will be very sad if that is indeed the case.

 

[nicoenarg]

Well I said what I wanted to. In the interests of avoiding the classic "Matiasba vs notebook.fix" war between us. I'm bowing out of the discussion.

 

[Matiasba]

Is this the Argentine mindset: You are either the leader or the follower?
The thing is this Matias: We never wanted to "lead". That is not how our culture works. We don't believe in "manifest destiny" and we are not meant to "lead" Latin America. We don't want to be a repetition of the Argentina of up to the 1970s. We are looking for partners, Matias, for equals. Brazil extended a hand to Argentina, looking to walk towards the future as partner countries, side by side. To help bring the other countries of the region together, as equals too, so we could all rise together, prosper together, as a community, without masters and subjects. The "Ks" rejected that. Most of the Argentines reject that. Maybe your political mindset only accepts this lead or led dichotomy. If you can't lead, maybe you can only see yourself as a passive subject. It will be very sad if that is indeed the case.

I seriously doubt that you can put Brazil and Argentina as equals. So yeah, there has to be a leader IMO in a lot of aspects, in others no, as it happens with some countries in the Eurozone or as it happens with China. Because of numbers, you just cant put Brazil at the same level than Uruguay or Uruguay than Argentinas, some country has to be leader, like it happened with Brazil and the commerce with Africa, then came Argentina. With a lot of issues theres one country that leads and the others then come and copy. Yes I believe in community and thats what I want, but when we talk of military, its natural that the best country leads, like it happened in WWII or in Irak, etc, etc.

 

[Matiasba]

Well I said what I wanted to. In the interests of avoiding the classic "Matiasba vs notebook.fix" war between us. I'm bowing out of the discussion.

There is no war. Dont be afraid.

 

[nicoenarg]

There is no war. Dont be afraid.

Not afraid. I just don't want to go in circles by saying the same thing over and over. You have fun now.

 

[Matiasba]

You can say different things, if you want.

Good luck.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

If Argentines hung it's politicians up by their testicles / nipples for imploding the country like they've done with the military for past crimes against humanity it would have a chance to become a serious player in the world again.

The Krooks, and everyone before them, didn't rip the military budget because of some principled aversion to warfare. They ripped it because it was politically favorable to do so.

 

[Matiasba]

If Argentines hung it's politicians up by their testicles / nipples for imploding the country like they've done with the military for past crimes against humanity it would have a chance to become a serious player in the world again.

The Krooks, and everyone before them, didn't rip the military budget because of some principled aversion to warfare. They ripped it because it was politically favorable to do so.

They did it because the people who govern today is the oposite of the militars, and its economic policies, and its ideology, and they way they did govern, by force. The people who govern today is in many ways oposed to the militars, they were chased under dictatorship and today they are in power and dislike the miitars.

 

[camberiu]

They did it because the people who govern today is the oposite of the militars, and its economic policies, and its ideology, and they way they did govern, by force. The people who govern today is in many ways oposed to the militars, they were chased under dictatorship and today they are in power and dislike the miitars.

And yet, Dilma was TORTURED by the military back then and even she understands that the officers and soldiers of today have nothing to do with that happened during the dictatorship. And that this kind of petty revenge goes leads to nowhere.

 

[camberiu]

I seriously doubt that you can put Brazil and Argentina as equals.

Dude, Brazil invited Argentina to join the Nuclear submarine program. Brazil invited Argentina to share the aircraft carrier. Brazil has repeatedly tried to build an aerospace industry in partnership with Argentina. Brazil invited Argentina to be part of the CRUZEX and ARAEX. And it gets snubbed every time. We try to put Brazil and Argentina as equals, but it seems that your minds can't accept that.