Argentina is expensive. Really don't know how middle class here get by

[Fiscal]

Seems reasonable .. a fancy place furnished place like that in Century City with 170 m2 , would rent for $10,000 plus in LA, perhaps $15,000?

A 2 bed 3 bath 1700 sq ft with views in the newest super luxury tower downtown in LA is $6500.

https://www.dlxco.com/circa-lofts-condos-for-sale-lease-downtown-losangeles?mlsno=19-419564

 

[Fiscal]

Fiscal , I get the feeling you are very lost here. That apt is a furnished property aimed at embassies, etc. You can rent the same one in the same building for half the price. You seem to be shopping at the wrong places where you find crap vegetables. Your numbers are way off really. Health insurance is way way cheaper than what you get in the US, restaurants are much much cheaper, as well as bars and entertainment in general ( theaters, concerts, etc ). I am not sure what you are looking at or comparing, but it is very inaccurate. Utilities are much cheaper here, public transportation and private schools. I could keep going, but in summary, your numbers are off

I recognize that various things are cheaper. Though in part because there is simply isn't as nice as stuff to buy. So there is no Whole Foods/Erewhon type grocery store, and groceries, fruit, vegetables, meat, and fish are cheaper. But there isn't really high quality fruit, grass fed beef, wild Alaskan salmon etc... available here. Expensive restaurants are much cheaper. A posh restaurant here runs $100 for two versus $600 in LA, but a posh restaurant here doesn't compare to LA. In terms of schools, Lincoln runs $30K a year, same as Pasadena Polytechnic or Harvard Westlake in LA. But this is straying from my point. Argentina is less expensive, but it is not that much less expensive. At the same time, a doctor here makes less a secretary. How do non-wealthy people here get by?

 

[Fiscal]

US$5,000/month gets you a 2000 square feet apart on THIS building in Singapore.

EXAMPLE

That is a cool building. Also the food in Singapore is 1000x better.

 

[perry]

That is a cool building. Also the food in Singapore is 1000x better.

To get good food in Argentina at best only 5% of restaurants are recommendable . Meat products cannot be advertised as grass fed in shop windows as to create the illusion that all meat tastes the same . To find grass fed meat you have to ask but it it never advertised in butchers nor restaurants.
[

 

[camberiu]

Also the food in Singapore is 1000x better.

When you set the bar this low, yeah sure.

 

[Addi]

I judge country by the amount of money persons receive and the amount that you can buy property in Argentina for. And average salaries don't allow most of people to afford painlessly such purchase. Plus I know that there is a huge problem with transacting in other currencies, no good application of law in case smth happen and other issues.

 

[sergio]

I recognize that various things are cheaper. Though in part because there is simply isn't as nice as stuff to buy. So there is no Whole Foods/Erewhon type grocery store, and groceries, fruit, vegetables, meat, and fish are cheaper. But there isn't really high quality fruit, grass fed beef, wild Alaskan salmon etc... available here. Expensive restaurants are much cheaper. A posh restaurant here runs $100 for two versus $600 in LA, but a posh restaurant here doesn't compare to LA. In terms of schools, Lincoln runs $30K a year, same as Pasadena Polytechnic or Harvard Westlake in LA. But this is straying from my point. Argentina is less expensive, but it is not that much less expensive. At the same time, a doctor here makes less a secretary. How do non-wealthy people here get by?

Well I think this is a valid point. In less developed countries those things that are taken for granted in developed countries are luxuries enjoyed by only a few and are priced very high. Also if you want to maintain the same standard of living as in a country like the US or UK you are going against the grain so prices will be higher. How do people get by here? Very simple - they do with far less. For example, I see a massive difference in lifestyle between professionals I know in Argentina vs the US or the UK. The home of a psychiatrist friend in BA (which he struggled to buy) would be on the low end of the middle class in the US. He and his family have one old car. They seldom travel abroad. The difference in homes, cars, disposable income is huge. There may be compensating factors in Argentina (as some will argue) but be that as it may, the bottom line is that the Argentine professional class live far more modesty than their counterparts in the US. There are the rich like Macri and his friends, of course but they're a very small group. Those below the professional level manage by having less, by living with parents or having parents live with them, by not owning cars, by counting every penny. Yesterday a friend described life in one of the lower middle class neighborhoods of BA. The closest cafe is blocks away. Everything closes by 9 PM. People are visibly counting their pesos in markets, trying to buy basics. The few imported goods on the shelves (Italian pasta is one that he mentioned) sit there forever because nobody can afford it. Things like dental care (at least anything expensive like crowns, implants etc) simply can't be done so people can be seen toothless (extraction the only option) or with teeth in visibly bad shape. An employee of an optical shop told me that some people just cannot afford multifocals or any prescription that is complicated and more expensive. They get the cheapest and lowest quality lenes if anything. One thing I've noticed is that when there are economic downturns there are more sex workers on the streets. During the big crisis - default period - I couldn't walk a block without being given a little flyer advertising the services of prostitutes.

 

[on the brink]

My description of the typical town in the province is realistic.

 

[nikad]

I recognize that various things are cheaper. Though in part because there is simply isn't as nice as stuff to buy. So there is no Whole Foods/Erewhon type grocery store, and groceries, fruit, vegetables, meat, and fish are cheaper. But there isn't really high quality fruit, grass fed beef, wild Alaskan salmon etc... available here. Expensive restaurants are much cheaper. A posh restaurant here runs $100 for two versus $600 in LA, but a posh restaurant here doesn't compare to LA. In terms of schools, Lincoln runs $30K a year, same as Pasadena Polytechnic or Harvard Westlake in LA. But this is straying from my point. Argentina is less expensive, but it is not that much less expensive. At the same time, a doctor here makes less a secretary. How do non-wealthy people here get by?

I think it is an error to try to compare a developing country against a 1st world country. In terms of income, structure, commercial expansion, access to goods and services, GDP those set a big difference. It is just pointless. I could understand your frustration if you had moved to Germany and were in shock, but moving from the US to Argentina, in the middle of an economic crash and comparing the two is a mistake in my opinion. I believe you are not even in BsAs but in Rosario, so the change would be even more noticeable. Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands there are countries that are far superior to the US in terms of quality of life and access to quality goods. Having been to the US many times, I don't think most people eat quality food, organic, etc. It might seem like that if you live in SF, other west coast cities, NY - and it is an elite really. If you refer to elite class living, I am sure in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, etc they have access to even better goods and services and luxury items.

 

[sergio]

I think it is an error to try to compare a developing country against a 1st world country. In terms of income, structure, commercial expansion, access to goods and services, GDP those set a big difference. It is just pointless. I could understand your frustration if you had moved to Germany and were in shock, but moving from the US to Argentina, in the middle of an economic crash and comparing the two is a mistake in my opinion. I believe you are not even in BsAs but in Rosario, so the change would be even more noticeable. Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands there are countries that are far superior to the US in terms of quality of life and access to quality goods. Having been to the US many times, I don't think most people eat quality food, organic, etc. It might seem like that if you live in SF, other west coast cities, NY - and it is an elite really. If you refer to elite class living, I am sure in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, etc they have access to even better goods and services and luxury items.

Saudi Arabia is not a good example. They have a problem with fresh food since a lot of it is imported and travel time, storage, delivery etc results in conditions that are not the best for consumers. I don't think in terms of consumer goods there is any advantage of living in any of the Gulf countries. They have to import it all, so it's no more accessible. For top medical care the wealthy often go to the US or the UK. You are right that most people in the US do not eat a healthy diet. It's mainly in the big metro areas that there is more consciousness of food and health but my experience is that quality food is now available just about everywhere in the US. It's true that there are no equivalents of supermarkets like Whole Foods in Argentina, not even in a giant city like BA. In the US what you eat and how you eat is up to the consumer to take an interest. Quality food is there, though. You don't usually have to go all over the place to find it. Certainly not in the major metro areas. There is less poverty in countries like Sweden but they have small populations so it is really not fair to compare them to a huge country like the US with a massive population. I doubt too that every Swede has an ideal diet though a lot of people tend to think that everyone in Scandinavia as super enlightened. I suppose if you think of California as a progressive state (if it were an independent country it would be the fifth wealthiest in the world) you could compare it to Sweden but the US is just too big and diverse to compare. I think the point is that quality goods are harder to come by in Argentina and often much more expensive but that is to be expected in a county that has a much smaller economy and a history of resisting a more competitive and efficient business climate. That's the way it is and you have to do your best get around it if you want to live in Argentina.