Argentine citizenship for foreigners?

[Bajo_cero2]

I started this thread asking if any other expats had applied for citizenship and asked the ARGENTINE lawyers not to reply.
.

Your wish is my command.
Thread abandoned.

 

[Tortuga]

Your wish is my command.
Thread abandoned.

This saddens me. I care a lot about this topic and have found Bajo_cero2's contributions to be invaluable. Thank you for being part of the conversation.

Tortuga

 

[ElCordobés]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]An update from Córdoba. [/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We submitted our papers on Friday and today completed our fingerprints with the federal police to be sent off to BA. [/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Had I known, I would have completed the form with the Mesa de Entrega earlier to have our cases assigned. They just has a form for our names as "ACTOR" in the petition for carta de ciudadania. And another form for the names of our testigos and a bit of our personal details. Once submitted...we were assigned our court/judge on the spot. We have a different court, but the same judge as one court is vacant at the moment as I noted further up this thread. (They assign cases by lottery in Cordoba too...I tried to get us in the same lot, but they said no...in no uncertain terms). It was all pretty painless otherwise.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]The clerk I submitted my papers to said it's been running about 10-12 months in Córdoba to get the Carta. I am hoping for under 18 months...so if we do it in 10-12 months...we'll be happy and shocked. (He coincidentally has been to a small town from my state where his aunt lives...he even named the college there). He asked if I knew the process of what happens next and took the time to walk me through it (fortunately it corresponds with what I have read and understood) He said the primary thing that usually holds people up is the means of living. Of course, we knew this.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Anyone have any thoughts on this?[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We have monotributista status, I assume we'll need to provide something certified by the accountant and bank statements. They seemed impressed with what we had for our submission thus far. I wish we had started right after getting our DNIs...we might be done by now. Oh well. [/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]It should again be noted. We are parents to native-born citizen. In theory, this will make things easier. It was a relative breeze for our DNIs. In addition to the list above, they asked to see the partida de nacimiento. We had the legalized version with us and two copies...one for each of our files. Also presented her DNI and copies for the file as well.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]They kept the originals of the Antecendentes and Certificado de Domicilio. We kept all of the birth cert. originals as well as the Certificado de Migraciones. They noted only one of our two testigos will ultimately be called for each of our cases.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]One thing that we thought would bite us in the ass. My clerk on Friday...processed a paper that I needed on the spot to get digital fingerprinting to be sent off to BA with a 30-45 day turnaround (Although my clerk said he would be surprised if it goes missing or gets rejected that we'd have to process again...let's hope not).[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]My wife's clerk (again same judge mind you...) said that we'd have to wait until February to get the form (since everything is closing after this Friday through January...I pressed the clerk on it since we want to be processed more or less simultaneously...and we went back today..Monday for fingerprints...as she said if we got there early...they should be able to do it...and surprise...she was ready for us and had the form prepared this morning.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]So we went downstairs to be fingerprinted by the federal police. They took three sets of ink based format. Presumably to digitize in BA? We then brought the cards back to our respective clerks. One took my number to advise us. For my wife they gave me a number and asked that we call the third week of February to check on the status of our tramite. Which works fine, since we're getting out of the heat up here in Cordoba (95F/35C and hotter for Christmas)...spending 5 weeks from the end of January and all of February in and around Bariloche...so back in March to see where we're at.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Anyone know what happens after the fingerprints are approved and reported back to the court? [/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Hopefully nothing goes missing with the 5 week holiday! [/background]

 

[sleazemerchant]

I very recently won my citizenship case and was sworn in and issued the carta de ciudadania. I used Bajo Cero's legal services; the cost was $1500 USD up front and $1500 USD on the day I was issued the carta de ciudadania. My background: I've been living in Buenos Aires for nine years and had legal residence only from 2007-2009; I own several legitimate businesses here, fluent in spanish and have no criminal record in any country. The entire process took about 17 months which was largely my fault for dragging my feet on getting all the papers in order, which probably added at least 6 months to the process. The bottom line here is that Bajo Cero is 100% legitimate and provided the exact services under the specified timelines noted in the contract we signed. $3000 USD to go directly from tourist status to full citizen of Argentina is probably the best deal on earth at present time.

 

[La Fleur]

I very recently won my citizenship case and was sworn in and issued the carta de ciudadania. I used Bajo Cero's legal services; [...] The entire process took about 17 months which was largely my fault for dragging my feet on getting all the papers in order, which probably added at least 6 months to the process. The bottom line here is that Bajo Cero is 100% legitimate and provided the exact services under the specified timelines noted in the contract we signed. $3000 USD to go directly from tourist status to full citizen of Argentina is probably the best deal on earth at present time.

Dear Sleazemerchant

Congratulations on getting your citizenship. And it was kind of you to share the details of your case (as you see it) with the forum and its readers. But is wise to be very careful with generalising the details of your case in a way that might mislead others seeking to begin the process.

You have shared what you agreed to pay in relation to your case, begun quite some time ago. Such details may (or may not) still be relevant to cases begun now.

You have also made assumptions about why your case took a particular length of time. These assumptions may not be correct. My own case took more than two years, despite all documents being ready and available at the outset. My own understanding is that one of the important variables is the judge assigned to your case. Another might be your country of origin. An important one will be luck, and how the judge or court staff feel on any particular day. And that is with clients using the same lawyer. Use a different lawyer and you have another important variable.

I certainly agree with you though that it was great to be taken through the process by a lawyer who is knowledgeable about the process, and very determined and assertive on his client's behalf.

Again, congratulations on becoming an Argentine.

La Fleur

 

[ElCordobés]

@sleazemerchant Congratulations! I was very much interested in working with BajoCero, but we have an issue of geography since we're up here in Córdoba Capital. Considering that people will pay 10s to 100s of thousands of dollars to get second passport. It is a deal. But yes, in your case to go directly from tourist to citizen. Amazing. I think he's upped that fee a bit since, no? We should have a reasonable go of it on our own. But I would love to have the support of someone who knows what they're doing. What did you have to prove you had a legitmate business? Sleazemerchant likely wasn't noted in your paperwork

 

[ghost]

I very recently won my citizenship case and was sworn in and issued the carta de ciudadania. I used Bajo Cero's legal services; the cost was $1500 USD up front and $1500 USD on the day I was issued the carta de ciudadania. My background: I've been living in Buenos Aires for nine years and had legal residence only from 2007-2009; I own several legitimate businesses here, fluent in spanish and have no criminal record in any country. The entire process took about 17 months which was largely my fault for dragging my feet on getting all the papers in order, which probably added at least 6 months to the process. The bottom line here is that Bajo Cero is 100% legitimate and provided the exact services under the specified timelines noted in the contract we signed. $3000 USD to go directly from tourist status to full citizen of Argentina is probably the best deal on earth at present time.

Read the statements in bold. I call bullshit!

 

[mmmyeah]

On Rubilar's Webs it says

2) Residency means that you live (are present in the country) in Argentina as a matter of fact, regardless of your legal status.

However, in other ares of this board it has been stated that presence in country is not necessarily a requirement. Sure, a substantial amount of presence is probably needed, but if an apartment is maintained in AR and evidence indicates the person has the intention to remain in AR and the person does not show more attachment to another country during that time, then this might be enough. For example, the case of someone taking a boat ride for a year and being granted citizenship.

Why does the FAQ at http://www.rubilar.com.ar/#!citizenship/cbm1 not indicate this? Is this not true?

 

[sleazemerchant]

Read the statements in bold. I call bullshit!

I had legal residence from 2007-2009 under a work contract; upon expiration of the temporary residence visa I simply paid the $140 USD (at the time) reciprocity fee and entered as a tourist the next time I flew back into Argentina. As a consequence of the nature of my business and my own personal habits I frequently travel outside Argentina (never coming close to overstaying the 90 day allotment) and continued to enter as a tourist for almost four years until receiving the carta de ciudadania.

 

[sleazemerchant]

Dear Sleazemerchant

Congratulations on getting your citizenship. And it was kind of you to share the details of your case (as you see it) with the forum and its readers. But is wise to be very careful with generalising the details of your case in a way that might mislead others seeking to begin the process.

You have shared what you agreed to pay in relation to your case, begun quite some time ago. Such details may (or may not) still be relevant to cases begun now.

You have also made assumptions about why your case took a particular length of time. These assumptions may not be correct. My own case took more than two years, despite all documents being ready and available at the outset. My own understanding is that one of the important variables is the judge assigned to your case. Another might be your country of origin. An important one will be luck, and how the judge or court staff feel on any particular day. And that is with clients using the same lawyer. Use a different lawyer and you have another important variable.

I certainly agree with you though that it was great to be taken through the process by a lawyer who is knowledgeable about the process, and very determined and assertive on his client's behalf.

Again, congratulations on becoming an Argentine.

La Fleur

I have no idea what Bajo Cero charges for his services these days nor is it relevant to my experience. Regarding the judges, he did mention that there are nine judges that handle citizenship cases and that two of them are very difficult if not impossible to convince; however, an applicant can reject his assigned judge once without a reason so the chance of being assigned to the other non-starter judge is only 1 in 8. By luck of the draw I was assigned to one of the judges who is amendable to granting citizenship to foreigners; coincidentally two of the judge's secretaries recognized me as the owner of my businesses, so that may have saved the judge from having to physically send someone to verify that my businesses actually exist. Other details of minor relevance that I did not feel the need to include in the original post: I am young, good looking, physically imposing, charming when necessary and showed up in $4500 USD Ermenegildo Zegna suits every time I needed to present myself in the judge's chambers.