(Automatic) Arrest Without Legal Order At Immigration

[Bajo_cero2]

There is a new police office at Immigration where they arrest you just with the indications of any immigration agent if they find out you are irregular.

The excuse is that they have to confirm your address but once you are at the police office you cannot leave.

So, I complained because it was lunch time so the big police man came to talk with me and told me they cannot leave so I asked: so, they are arrested? But they cannot leave and you escort them when they go to the toilet right? No he said, they are not arrested but they cannot go (and he start thinking out loud) ...but I wrote their names at the book of imprisioners ehen they arrive and when they leave... so, I said, if they cannot leave they are arrested without a judge order and this is a crime. So, the police said: I have no idea why they send them here, it makes no sense. So, I explained him that I was going to wait until 6 before to ask a judge for their liberation and left to the office to write the habeas corpus but they were released at 5:55 PM.
There was a lot of background work that allowed them to get freedom (professional secret of course) but if you go there just like that, you might sleep at jail up to 60 days before deportation.

So, a couple of tips:
1) do not go to Immigration;
2) if you do, someone must stay at home (with DNI) to confirm police your address like you are a criminal;
3) do not lie about your address.

 

[splaying]

Dr. Rubilar was extremely helpful to me several years ago -- I support his efforts as he works for the good of the people. I know my situation was a simple matter but I have heard of many other individuals with many more complicated situations. I would say he is a man to trust. He works for the people..

 

[Gringoboy]

There is a new police office at Immigration where they arrest you just with the indications of any immigration agent if they find out you are irregular.

The excuse is that they have to confirm your address but once you are at the police office you cannot leave.

So, I complained because it was lunch time so the big police man came to talk with me and told me they cannot leave so I asked: so, they are arrested? But they cannot leave and you escort them when they go to the toilet right? No he said, they are not arrested but they cannot go (and he start thinking out loud) ...but I wrote their names at the book of imprisioners ehen they arrive and when they leave... so, I said, if they cannot leave they are arrested without a judge order and this is a crime. So, the police said: I have no idea why they send them here, it makes no sense. So, I explained him that I was going to wait until 6 before to ask a judge for their liberation and left to the office to write the habeas corpus but they were released at 5:55 PM.
There was a lot of background work that allowed them to get freedom (professional secret of course) but if you go there just like that, you might sleep at jail up to 60 days before deportation.

So, a couple of tips:
1) do not go to Immigration;
2) if you do, someone must stay at home (with DNI) to confirm police your address like you are a criminal;
3) do not lie about your address.

A confusing story to say the least.
There's a police office at immigration where they arrest you if your affairs are not in order, presumably following a tip-off from an immigration official, except you're not under arrest, according to the police officer, who apparently cannot arrest someone without a judge's order. So it's a criminal offence for a policeman to arrest someone without a judge's authorisation?
You then returned to your office to prepare a case for your client's release (even though he/she wasn't under arrest, so presumably detained under some other instrument) and the professional secret rears its ugly head yet again.
So you are advising people who need to regulate their immigration status NOT to go to immigration and therefore by inference, to go to you instead, presumably, the whole tenor of this being nothing more than a badly written sales pitch.
The whole reason people go to immigration in the first place is to put their affairs in order and you're now implying that they'll get arrested if they do.

 

[ben]

Frankly, though I consider bajo a total asshat in anything outside of his profession, I would have thought to defer to him in things that come within his purview. He sounds learned and professional. Until... I personally observed him take a very simple issue and inject a ridiculous amount of FUD:

Everybody knows that Argentines who don't live here can enter the country on a foreign passport, that their passport gets stamped "ARGENTINO -180 DIAS", and that as long as they indeed leave in 180 days, they can leave on this same foreign passport. Arg passport not required.

This is not somehow obscure or complicated. The government publishes this online on its site and on the website of every Argentine consulate in the world. This is the experience of every person who has ever done this.

Enter bajo, who is going to tell you that to listen to the government is really dangerous, because (and this is the most charitable possible way of reading what he said) a really weird reading of the underlying laws may mean that the government reserves the right to do the exact opposite of what it says, namely not let you leave on the foreign passport. He managed to wiggle in a threat of going to jail.

Pressed for an example when this ever happened, he responded pretty much the same way as he does on everything. First he threw a couple of non sequiturs and red herrings (like the absolutely unrelated example of a foreigner with residency who entered on a foreign passport without showing DNI). When called out on that, he went ahead and ducked behind - you guessed it - professional secret.

This is not an isolated occurrence. For years, debating bajo on this forum has been a story of misquotes, obfuscations, links that go nowhere, moving goalposts, in short un desastre total.

So at this point, I for one put little stock in bajo's pronouncements even on things he's supposed to be an expert on. Especially if it's related to the eternal narrative of how xenophobic and horrible the current government is.

If the man wrote what time it is, I'd check a clock first.

In most cases, I am not sure whether would you can gain more knowledge by listening to bajo, or by actually having your head up your own ass. Tough call.

 

[Ceviche]

Thank you Dr Rubilar to keep us updated with latest laws!

 

[Gringoboy]

Thank you Dr Rubilar to keep us updated with your latest sales pitch!

That's more like it.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Gringoboy, Sorry, I m not a native speacker but it is confusing even in Spanish because it is ridicoulous.

It is worst.

You go there to reguloze your situation. They lie to you so you go to the police station on the ground floor of esificio 5, once you are there you sign in the book of arrested people and you cannot leave.

Yes, it is a very serious crime to arreat without a) evidence that you just commited a crime (blood in your clothes), B ) if you are arrested while you commit a crime or c) with the order of a judge.

In fact, the Director of the sepportation deppartment was accused by me for illegal arrest and this crime is punished with 12 years of jail.

I went to my office to write the habeas corpus because no matter the euphemism they user, they were not able to leave so, they were arrested.

Professional secret: as soon as we have the same law since 1869, i spent about 100.000 usd in books since the open the jail for foreigners and I found in those antique books the solutions plus thothans of hours reading them and developing legal arguments for leading cases. To conl copy is for free. Give me one reason why I should share my professional secret? I find none.

I continue later.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Gringoboy, this debate is long (since 2011) when I started to advice against the Colonia run.

So, when I suggest to do not go to immigration I mean for renewal of the I-90 (visa) for example.

Another reason for do not go there is when they send you a letter saying that you have to show up there because once you are there they can arrest you but they need an order from Court for arresting you outside immigration. There is a big difference, isn't it?

There was one of my clients, a member of this forum who received a letter of immigration saying that he/she must show up there. I told him/her do not go. He/she was super upset with me because I refuse to go while he/she felt some kind of duty regarding to show up and he/she was very angry with me. This story finished with he/she getting the argentine citizenship instead of a deportation order. This is part of the background of this long debate. While then they call you to notify you a deportation order and unless you sign it, it was not executive, now they do not even need an order so you might have a deportation order you do not know or they can just arrest you because you have too many stamps because it evidence your will of cheating the local law.

Since I posted this new info i sent many clients to immigration but meanwhile I was at Court starting an habeas corpus at the same time, so the judges makes a simple call and my clients waits at the bar intead of at the police office because they cannot be arrested by the law, they know it and since there is a Criminal Federal Judge controlling them, magicly they respect the National constitution because it is a very serious crime to arrest someone without the order of a judge.

Regarding your other [out of place comment], i receive feedback from immigrants everyday and they say that many of them went to immigration with their lawyers or paralegals and they were arrested and deported, so, my advice works for every immigrant because when this happends to you and your paralegal says "you must go" now you know that you need a previous habeas corpus or to look for proper legal advice you can get for free at the public defence office because, otherwise, you can be arrested.

Also now you know that you cannot lie about the address and if nobody is at home you are going to be arrested for 60 days before being deported if they decide to double check it so, WTF are you talking about?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

The whole reason people go to immigration in the first place is to put their affairs in order and you're now implying that they'll get arrested if they do.

If you go to immigration and nobody is at home to confirm the police you live there, you can stay arrested for 60 days before deportation. There is no predictable rules, they do whatever they want.

So, if you decide to go to immigration, some one must stay at home just in case.

There is no need of an order of a Public Authority for arresting a foreigner at the Immigration building and the tramites you can do there can be done by power of attorney by your paralegal or lawyer.

So, for one moment I thought people go to immigration for buying groceries

Is it understandable for you?

I agree that this is so ridiculous that is hard to accept it because it means that we do not live with the rule of law anymore.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

That's more like it.

I got tired of you blend of ignorance (because, of course you knew you need to have someone at home before to go to immigration, right?) and lack of respect, so, welcome to the ignore list.