Buenos Aires Needs A Red Light Zone

[Jaredberryman]

Of course not. Puritanic outrage is only reserved for "sins of the flesh."

sleslie, here is where I depart from the right wing in the U.S. I do in fact also experience great outrage for other economical and social injustices, and believe steps should be taken to make them right. In fact, I thought you've often made some insightful comments about a couple of these things on this forum that I agree with. For whatever reason, in the US these days we have become like Argentina: completely divided. You are either a K or you are not, or you are either a democrat or republican, if you stand in this box then I must be opposed to you. I am not your enemy, and you may not think that way, but from your posts, it definitely sounds like you are looking at me like I am your enemy. It is possible to disagree with people without them being your enemy, and without insulting them.

 

[Jaredberryman]

I find it very funny that you oppose slavery which is clearly condoned in the Bible : http://www.biblegate...:46&version=ESV

Yet you believe verbatim the bible's interpretation of how the earth was created to the extent that you condone it being taught in schools as fact.

I don't mean to be rude, but if I were you I would think more critically about which aspects of the book I choose to interpret literally and which ones I do not.

I do not believe in old earth creationism, and the bible does not give a scientific account of creation nor does it specifically tell us how old the earth is or the date creation. I do think the earth is 13.5 billion years old due to the fact that scientists measured the light that flowed out from the big bang and that the universe is constantly expanding. I just believe that even old earth creationism, if we are going to teach about the origins of the universe, should be allowed a place at the table. That is all. I do not agree with it. Good teachers will let people look at different problems form many different angles.

The Bible does not condone slavery for Christians or anyone else presently. This is a common misnomer. Christians do not find that Torah (the first five books of the Bible) is normative in its entirety (I would like to point out that no Christian in history takes this line). Rather, we find that God permits the Israelites in a certain time and place to have indentured servants for 7 years, and in other cases slaves. This does not mean that God condones it in the Bible, any other than God ever condones divorce in scripture. It means that in a certain time, place, and culture, God permitted this without making a law to punish it. It's not a question of literal or non-literal, but a question of what supersedes what.

The people who brought about the movements to end slavery where very devout Christians. In their days, they were the looneys: the quakers, methodists, baptists, etc. Therefore, if you are a Christian and don't want to be hypocrite, when you think you see an injustice, you should in some way stand against. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite. That is why I am against prostitution in this country: because it is an enormous injustice.

 

[Jaredberryman]

I read the first 8 pages of this topic, skimmed through the rest. Instead of posting a long thought out essay on what I believe to be morally correct, or what should be done about the issue, about the times I took the 130 bus through the bosques, or about the time a travesti stole my cell phone on a street in Palermo (funnily enough, when I realized what had happened and I demanded it back, she gave it back, that was nice) I'll offer something I haven't seen in this thread yet:

A lot, if not most of the people here, are comparing statistics about sex trade in Argentina with sex trade in Europe, Canada, USA, etc. To put it into perspective, lets keep things local. I'm not going to quote, but I read someone say something like 'most women in Argentina are forced into prostitution'. This is probably true, but there's a HUGE difference in this matter as in most between Capital Federal and the interior of the country. In my opinion, that's where the real problem is. Personally, I think some sort of regulation in the city would benefit everyone. But when we're talking about sex trafficking, while it does happen in Capital Federal, for the most part that happens in the interior.

You're absolutely right, but I don't have the statistics from the paper memorized I read. They were all form academic journals and done through some pretty thorough research. I just remember the feeling I got when reading the paper and feeling I had when talking with people caught in this cycle. The feeling was not just there because, but based off the numbers and also reading about the mafia that is the police. The problems were also prevalent in Capital but worse in the interior. Consider the lady not long back who was fighting to get members of a brothel convicted (they kidnapped her daughter and put her in the sex trade) and they were let off the hook in Tucuman because they gave a bribe to the judge. To be honest, that kind of thing makes my blood broil.

 

[Dipperus]

You're absolutely right, but I don't have the statistics from the paper memorized I read. They were all form academic journals and done through some pretty thorough research. I just remember the feeling I got when reading the paper and feeling I had when talking with people caught in this cycle. The feeling was not just there because, but based off the numbers and also reading about the mafia that is the police. The problems were also prevalent in Capital but worse in the interior. Consider the lady not long back who was fighting to get members of a brothel convicted (they kidnapped her daughter and put her in the sex trade) and they were let off the hook in Tucuman because they gave a bribe to the judge. To be honest, that kind of thing makes my blood broil.

Exactly. As I said, in Capital things aren't so black and white, there are so many different things happening, but just to generalize (and I'm generalizing here, so no one get too excited), what happens most of the times is that women are kidnapped, like the Maria Cash incident, and smuggled to remote places. In contrast, a lot of women come to the big city from the interior or surrounding countries, and find that the only work they can get is prostitution. The reason they are kidnapped and taken to the interior is because women who would do that there will usually go to Capital to make more money, so there is a 'need' for it. Please note that I put need in quotations.

In one case, there is human trafficking, in the other, it's out of simple necessity. Again, I'm generalizing and I'm sure the opposite happens and there are many factors, but I'm just trying to make a point that when you hear phrases like 'the statistic for so and so issue in Argentina is...' you really need to realize that there are two realities in Argentina.

 

[pauper]

I think child exploitation should be made illegal, and am also quite outraged at this abuse, the fact that our clothes are often made by people that are de facto slaves. If I could fix that one, then I would do it too. I'm not sure you should prosecute people who buy clothes (unless it's a business who knowingly did that), but I don't really see that as a valid comparison to prostitution in Argentina. But if I knew the clothes I am buying were produced by children, then I probably wouldn't buy them, although of course it's quite possible that I've done that in the past without realizing it. I'm not sure the two examples line up precisely.

But do you believe the best solution would be to ban clothing production and close all textile plants in Asia or to investigate, pursue and prosecute those who exploit workers?

 

[Jaredberryman]

But do you believe the best solution would be to ban clothing production and close all textile plants in Asia or to investigate, pursue and prosecute those who exploit workers?

This argument does not work because there is nothing inherently evil in producing clothing, but in the case of prostitution, someone's body and humanity is getting take advantage of, even if it is their will. The children in Asia might be happy that they have a job that gives them food to eat, but they are still being taken advantage of. One lie that we are told by western culture is that sex is the most important thing, but it is meaningless. The truth is that sex is neither the most important thing in life, and neither is it meaningless. Prostitution damages a person psychologically and in a broad fashion ultimately leads to injustices in the long run. It always has, always will. There's no reason to assume producing clothing will lead to a social injustice.

 

[khairyexpat]

Khairy, is it true you go to bed at 9pm sharp every night?

Yes .. yes .

Immediately after my nightly prayers.

http://abcnews.go.co...apology-9876022

 

[pauper]

This argument does not work because there is nothing inherently evil in producing clothing, but in the case of prostitution, someone's body and humanity is getting take advantage of, even if it is their will. The children in Asia might be happy that they have a job that gives them food to eat, but they are still being taken advantage of. One lie that we are told by western culture is that sex is the most important thing, but it is meaningless. The truth is that sex is neither the most important thing in life, and neither is it meaningless. Prostitution damages a person psychologically and in a broad fashion ultimately leads to injustices in the long run. It always has, always will. There's no reason to assume producing clothing will lead to a social injustice.

OK, so after 13 pages of arguing that it is the high levels of slavery and exploitation in the sex trade in Argentina that leads you to conclude that it should be entirely outlawed here you are now arguing that the academic report you read is actually irrelevant and prostitution is inherently evil and exploitative?

 

[Joe]

Tex, What about us gigolos (call us man-whores as you like) who ply our trade in the milongas and dance halls of Argentina seducing foreign women with our dancing prowess bringing badly needed dollars and euros into the country. Would you ban our livelihood as well, or is the ban only for female prostitutes? How am I to pay for my daily Fugazzetta?

 

[French jurist]

Where starts the male prostitution, where does it end...