Changes for "permatourists"

[steveinbsas]

I think immigration is a super complex issue and there is much more too it than just collecting taxes, especially from "perma-tourist" types that in the end may seem like a lot on this board, but is an infinitely small amount of people. (As opposed to say migrant workers from Bolivia et al.)

Until you have backpackers blowing up buildings, and vast hordes (I mean hordes) of US, Canadian, Euros doing the majority of manual labor, low paying jobs, i think the immigration policies will not be written with "perma-tourists" in mind.

How many do you really think there are? Now how many of those have these vast overseas treasure troves, or are in these lucrative careers that the government is trying to tap? Don't you think anyone with a well paying job would have the company they work for get them a visa? From what everyone has said on this board English teachers don't exactly make bank?

Yes, the law...blah blah blah. You've never sped in a car?

As one of my favorite quotes says: "If you like laws and you like sausages, never watch them being made" -Frederick the Great

I believe the new requirements for the visa rentista were indeed written with perma-tourists in mind, as well as those who already have the visa rentista and are not paying any taxes. The visa rentista doesn't really apply to Bolivians (migrant workers) in the first place. Backpackers are just tourists and will always be welcome 180 day a year.

The "powers that be" are probably well aware of pemra-tourists like Lee and qwerty who post (and boast) about living here on $30,000 USD per year (at the least) without having resident visas or paying income taxes in Argentina. Yes, Argentine migraciones has been soft on perma-tourists from the US and Europe, but it's their country after all. Perhaps they are tired of those who thumb their noses at the laws here. They are certainly not happy when foreigners don't pay the taxes they owe and AFIP has the bureaucracy in place to go after them (once they know who they are).

If you knew how aggressively AFIP goes after the handful of foreign residents (those without resident visas) when they want to sell their apartments here you might have a different point of view. It takes two to three months of red tape to get permission to sell, and now I understand they need to have an Argentine sign a document assuming responsibility for any taxes that might be assessed in the next ten(?) years.

Keep in mind that there is no "capital gains" tax on the sale of the property. The tax man is trying to collect taxes (about 30%) on "assumed" (undeclared) rental income as well as the often unpaid bienes personales taxes (1.25% plus 24% interest). They also check to see if the declared "sale price" of the property is "reasonable" so the government doesn't get cheated on the relatively small transfer tax (less than 3%).

I also believe that in the future migraciones will require proof of income tax payment from those renewing a visa rentista at the new $8000 pesos per person per month income level.

 

[soulskier]

The "powers that be" are probably well aware of pemra-tourists like Lee and qwerty who post (and boast) about living here on $30,000 USD per year (at the least) without having resident visas or paying income taxes in Argentina.

You really think Argentines powers-that-be read the message boards?

 

[French jurist]

You really think Argentines powers-that-be read the message boards?

I do believe the boards are monitored to some extent, hi guys & gals !

 

[GuilleGee]

Anyway, the new decreto entered into effect on july 6 or 7 and since then we have not heard of horror stories (decreto was published in the BO on may 6th, to enter into effect 60 days later).

I am just gonna chime in here with a personal experience. I have been living here since January, left for Colonia before my first 90 days, and on July 6 went to immigrations to get a extension. Extension was granted without questions, even though that would obviously put me over the 180 days in a year (It is good until the 7th of October).

By the way, I am a US citizen. I agree that the authorities could be just working on building up a framework for future enforcement, but I doubt that in the next couple of years enforcement will be stepped up a huge amount.

 

[steveinbsas]

By the way, I am a US citizen. I agree that the authorities could be just working on building up a framework for future enforcement, but I doubt that in the next couple of years enforcement will be stepped up a huge amount.

Even after the income requirement for the visa rentista had been "stepped up a huge amount" there were members of the forum that seriously doubted it and wish it wasn't true. Unfortunately, it is.

Argentina is a sovereign nation and desperately in need of revenue. Why shouldn't it go after the arrogant, tax evading foreigners who aren't in compliance with the laws and aren't paying all of the taxes they owe?

 

[gunt86]

Argentina is a sovereign nation and desperately in need of revenue. Why shouldn't it go after the arrogant, tax evading foreigners who aren't in compliance with the laws and aren't paying all of the taxes they owe?

Steve, Can you please tell us what the income tax minimum levels are for ARG?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I am just gonna chime in here with a personal experience. I have been living here since January, left for Colonia before my first 90 days, and on July 6 went to immigrations to get a extension. Extension was granted without questions, even though that would obviously put me over the 180 days in a year (It is good until the 7th of October).

By the way, I am a US citizen. I agree that the authorities could be just working on building up a framework for future enforcement, but I doubt that in the next couple of years enforcement will be stepped up a huge amount.

The new decreto 616-2010 is valid since 7.7.2010.

There 2 concepts you are not understanding guys, I think is a cultural misunderstanding.

The migration law was what we call an incomplete or imperfect law. This is not enough that a law forbids a something, there must be a) a clear consequence, a penalty, b) a procedure to enforce it and
c) a estate policy that order to enforce it.

For example, in criminal law prosecutors in BAC must prosecutes all the crimes they know about. And they must because there is an article in the Federal procedure codes that says so. You have a procedure code that creates a mechanism to prosecute and defend. And the Prosecutor in thief establish the policy. For example, during the 90´there was a policy about not prosecuting "tenencia para consumo de marihuana" (to have one porro for personal consuming). So, was the argentinian law inneficient? Not at all, was a political decision not prosecuting this crime because the Prosecutor in chief thought it was legal according to the Constitution. This situation I describe is just like yours.

Focusing in the immigration law. The decreto 616-2010 is an administrative order from the President to the migration agency. This is not a law, is a decreto, only the Congress can create a law. The President in this decreto has changed the official policy 180 degrees. Last 10 years the policy was focus on the 5.000.000 illegal from border countries. Nowadays about 70% of them has the DNI.

a) So now, the new policy is to focus on Non-Mercosur. They were able to manage 3.500.000 people in 10 years, it means they have the resources to deal with 350.000 people a year.

a2) Remember that Mercosur citizens cannot be deported and if they want to have a temporary residence they only must probe they are from mercosur or Peru and no criminal records. If they were illegals for 7 years they go to the federal judge and they become Argentinians if they want (2 years non permanent residence plus 3 years of permanent residence plus another 3 years for citizenship).
So, all the rules are for non Mercosur.

b) The agents have direct orders from the President about how to deal with permanenturist: 1) Reject entrance at the border 2) 30 days ultimatum.

c) The President gave to migration police powers. Now they can double check you don´t have any criminal record in any country through Interpol, they can go to your work to double check that you really work there (contract working visa), if they like they can google you and use your blog to prove that you are working here.

We don´t have access to internal memos between migration and the Casa Rosada but the decreto is quite clear.

C2) They already have the resources for enforce this because they only need to give you the ultimatum at the border, its a paper and a clear order for the aduanero.

d) Don´t underestimate the efficiency they might have if they want. And about taxes they became extremely efficient, AFIP is increasing collecting at 38% per year. About 15 point over inflation.
http://www.afip.gov.ar/estudios/

e) My legal advice is: the only paper that takes too long is the FBI criminal record (3 months), so, apply for this in advance and wait to see what happens if you like. If they give you the 1 month ultimatum and you already have your criminal records, then it won´t be so stressful.

Regards

 

[steveinbsas]

Focusing in the immigration law. The decreto 616-2010 is an administrative order from the President to the migration agency. This is not a law, is a decreto, only the Congress can create a law. The President in this decreto has changed the official policy 180 degrees. Last 10 years the policy was focus on the 5.000.000 illegal from border countries. Nowadays about 70% of them has the DNI.

For several months I have been asking if there is a difference between changes in the laws and changes in policy. Thanks for clearing that up!

The President gave to migration police powers. Now they can double check you don´t have any criminal record in any country through Interpol, they can go to your work to double check that you really work there (contract working visa), if they like they can google you and use your blog to prove that you are working here.

Not everyone has a blog and some of us have names that are far too common to find a specific individual using a google search. I'm not working, but here's my blog, anyway:

www.argentineart.blogspot.com

 

[GuilleGee]

Argentina is a sovereign nation and desperately in need of revenue. Why shouldn't it go after the arrogant, tax evading foreigners who aren't in compliance with the laws and aren't paying all of the taxes they owe?

I am an ignorant tax evading foreigner now? Even though I am working on finding a job that makes me legal, and as a recent university graduate I have 0 income and 0 worldwide assets (negative worldwide assets actually). Watch how you use that word when you dont know people's situation.

Bajo Cero - I was basing what I said on French Jurist's statement that the change would take effect on the 6th or the 7th.

 

[steveinbsas]

I am an ignorant tax evading foreigner now? Even though I am working on finding a job that makes me legal, and as a recent university graduate I have 0 income and 0 worldwide assets (negative worldwide assets actually). Watch how you use that word ignorant when you dont know people's situation.

The word I used was arrogant, not ignorant.

Now you appear to be both.