Chinese Trains Arrive In Buenos Aires

[Matiasba]

I strongly recommend to you guys to search some blog or web site that analyses Clarin behaviour from 2001 till today.
They were the major winners with AFJP buissiness, and they got a big, an enormous debt in dollars that was "pesificada" in 2002. They had this debt that was cut in half by Duhaldes government.
So there was a big repression in 2003, where Duhaldes police murdered two activists, do you know what was Clarin headline the day after?
It was "la crisis causó dos nuevas muertes". So it wasnt Duhalde, it wasnt the police, it was nobody, it was "the crisis". That was retourning the favour of the pesificación.

This is a tiny example of Clarin seriousness


(seriously, google "la crisis causó dos nuevas muertes")

 

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

We know Clarin is not a reliable news source.

We also know the govt controlled media is not a reliable news source either !

 

[syngirl]

(seriously, google "la crisis causó dos nuevas muertes")

Sorry, I don't like to google ;D

 

[Matiasba]

We know Clarin is not a reliable news source.

We also know the govt controlled media is not a reliable news source either !

This is what I m saying!!. I wont believe an article of Clarin that involves the government and/or Macri!!

 

[citygirl]

Yes, we have come to a point where I just dont believe anything of what Clarin says. As well as there are people that do not believe nothing of what Cristina says. Thats how politics are in this moment.
And its not some kind of caprice. I ve been reading Clarin for a long time, and I have came to the conclusion they just invent, create from nothing, a lot of news, I do not consider that information but political whoring (if I translated well the exp<b></b>ression "puterío politico").

And yet I'm going to try. Are you honestly saying that Clarin just "made up" the cost of the contracts and published it? Really????

I could understand if you argued that one train was different than the other or it was b/c of a change in demand/the market/the exchange rate whatever - anything really. But instead your argument is that a newspaper just made up a number for the contracts and printed it. If that's true, you should expose them. But unless you have evidence that this happend or can tell us what the actual numbers are, I'm uh..dumbfounded that is your defense.

 

[Matiasba]

Sorry, I don't like to google ;D

The "I dont like to google" I put before was referring to some government media article that I would probably find, if we think that there are two versions of everything today. And I put I dont like to google because always in these discussions we go and search with the preexistant idea in your head, so the most of the times you will probably find something close to what you re looking. You find what you re looking for because you search that, so this make futile the discussion.

This google I recommend refers to a fact, a Clarins headline of 2002 that did exist. The way they communicated two deaths by police repression.

 

[Matiasba]

And yet I'm going to try. Are you honestly saying that Clarin just "made up" the cost of the contracts and published it? Really????

I could understand if you argued that one train was different than the other or it was b/c of a change in demand/the market/the exchange rate whatever - anything really. But instead your argument is that a newspaper just made up a number for the contracts and printed it. If that's true, you should expose them. But unless you have evidence that this happend or can tell us what the actual numbers are, I'm uh..dumbfounded that is your defense.

I dont know in this particular case, as i said I didnt google it. But I had the experience with other news, a lot of them, that was a plain and simple lie, a lie, as you read well, the same as the enormous number of "operaciones mediaticas", or lies about insecurity. Think about it!! a year ago we have EVERY SINGLE DAY at twelve o clock (so it coincides with the news schedule) a case of insecurity, I repeat, ecery single day, for about two or three years, but today, suddenly, news about insecurity have been all gone!! magically!! we dont have anymore cases of insecurity in todays news!!
So, what happened? they just decided to not cover anymore those cases that happened everry morning before 12?

this is one of million examples that Clarin can perfectly make up, invent.
And if I had noticed that they did lie to me a lot of times, that make me disbelieve of everyting they say. More if they talk about the government corruption, which I dont and never denied, and even more if they talk about the candidate the group has, Macri.

 

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

This is what I m saying!!. I wont believe an article of Clarin that involves the government and/or Macri!!

No, you are badly paraphrasing what I said. It is really simple.

Clarin - Does Lie.
Govt Media - Does Lies.

I am not saying Clarin lies about the govt...actually as I type this it´s fairly evident it is a waste of time.

Roll on October.
Hope for Change.

 

[GuilleGee]

Yes, we have come to a point where I just dont believe anything of what Clarin says. As well as there are people that do not believe nothing of what Cristina says. Thats how politics are in this moment.
And its not some kind of caprice. I ve been reading Clarin for a long time, and I have came to the conclusion they just invent, create from nothing, a lot of news, I do not consider that information but political whoring (if I translated well the exp<b></b>ression "puterío politico").

I struggle to see why you are joining the debate if you don't have any evidence to the contrary...

The fact is that the article - although obviously slanted against the national government - is based on facts and announcements by the same national government. However the facts seem to be poorly understood by the writer, and the editor must have pushed the story through cause it sounds like a good sell in all this talk of corruption in the National Government.

The fact is that when the purchase of 279 subway cars was first announced back in 2008, the price announced was 3 million dollars (http://enelsubte.com/informes/trenes-manchados-707). Finally, this purchase did not materialize and was replaced by the purchase of 45 cars (9 trains) at a price of 1.95 million dollars per car (http://enelsubte.com/noticias/cuatro-meses-pondran-funcionamiento-los-coches-chinos-2086). (why did they cost so much less? My best guess is that because Ricardo Jaime was already out, less kickbacks...)

The purchase that was just signed by Macri was for 105 cars (21 trains) at a price of 1.8 million dollars per car. There is obviously a difference there, but by no means 37% and it probably has to do with a discount for quantity more than anything else.

Just so you know, EnElSubte is an independent source, not responding to any media group - they are not by any means friendly with the PRO and criticize the government, both city and nation, regularly.

Matias, don't respond with stupid arguments, respond with facts. You lose lots of intelligence points and respect.

 

[Matiasba]

no, I did nor missunderstand, I know Clarin lies, and the government too. The only way to have something near the truth is to reading exhaustively both sides, and not to read the panphlets, like Clarin or Tiempo Argentino.

La Nacion is way more reliable than Clarin, they just dont make it so evident. The same with Pagina 12, they are so more believable than Tiempo Argentino... although you have clearly two sides, you can make by your own some approximation to the truth, which IMO is clearly some where in the middle.

My conclusion, is that this government have done a lot of things right, and if you dig in who are the people the oposicion supports, you ll find they are the ones that won in 2001, while the great majority went into poverty, the people that won with the dictatorship policies, etc, not only the press (Clarin & La Nacion had done big bussiness with Videla) but he big capitals this people represent. So I doubt of everything they say, you just cant trust them. It happens also with the Kirchner matromony, that they were gobernors of Menem, and they supported him, although in these 10 years thay have totally changed the country, for better IMO.