Chinese Trains Arrive In Buenos Aires

[trennod]

Matias, stick to the point at hand. The point was whether the article was correct or not. GG has presented pretty strong evidence it was.
So, seeing as the Clarin article seems to now basically facturally correct, it begs the question of why there was such a big difference? I guess it was going in to someones pocket, as usual.

The country recovered ok on the back of 2001, but it was coming off a low base and basically gifted a free ride by booming soy prices. Now, the bubble has burst, the growth has bottomed out and we are on the slide again. In the last couple of years, I can think of plenty of things the Kirchner government has done wrong, but when I try to think of things it has done right I cant...

 

[Matiasba]

I struggle to see why you are joining the debate if you don't have any evidence to the contrary...

The fact is that the article - although obviously slanted against the national government - is based on facts and announcements by the same national government. However the facts seem to be poorly understood by the writer, and the editor must have pushed the story through cause it sounds like a good sell in all this talk of corruption in the National Government.

The fact is that when the purchase of 279 subway cars was first announced back in 2008, the price announced was 3 million dollars (http://enelsubte.com...s-manchados-707). Finally, this purchase did not materialize and was replaced by the purchase of 45 cars (9 trains) at a price of 1.95 million dollars per car (http://enelsubte.com...hes-chinos-2086). (why did they cost so much less? My best guess is that because Ricardo Jaime was already out, less kickbacks...)

The purchase that was just signed by Macri was for 105 cars (21 trains) at a price of 1.8 million dollars per car. There is obviously a difference there, but by no means 37% and it probably has to do with a discount for quantity more than anything else.

Just so you know, EnElSubte is an independent source, not responding to any media group - they are not by any means friendly with the PRO and criticize the government, both city and nation, regularly.

Matias, don't respond with stupid arguments, respond with facts. You lose lots of intelligence points and respect.

so if enelsubte.com appears somebody saying that nacion bought 37% cheaper than ciudad we must believe it?

How does enelsubte.com get that numbers? how does Clarin get them? how can they be different? who is lying and how do you proove it? why this enelsubte is right and Clarin wrong?


Look, I dont believe of independent sources here. I think everyone must have a political interest, so this source may be contaminated. I dont know if they respond to a political party, to metrovias, to some union. They have to stand for somebody. This is how this country works. Suposing the best, that this people are just common citizens (that spend money and time just for showing this information) the information that they show is the one that was given by the authorities, which I never take it as trusty.
I just dont believe that if the government (city or nation, I dont care) says they spend 1 million, that number is exactly what they have spended, these numbers are always inflated, the agreement with the supplier always obbey to pacts between nations, so the price never is the cheapest price if you could compare. And in a really corrupted place like this, this is the way the always rob, with the famous "la patria contratista" contracts. In fact, thats how Macri made his fortune, with bussiness with the state.

So, to sum up, independent, a-political press in my view does not exist in this country, and if they were just citizens with good intentions, that information is "para la gilada" wich means, for the people that can swallow that. I m never going to trust on official numbers when it comes to millionaire negotiations. 34 years living in this country made me think this way.

 

[Yogur griego]

this is one of million examples that Clarin can perfectly make up, invent.

I am rather curious about the other 999,999.

 

[Matiasba]

I am rather curious about the other 999,999.

you have it every day, not only at Clarin but in TN, or radio Mitre, etc, for example with dollar blue, or economic news in general, not today, but the past 6 years they were saying every day that economy was in big troubles while we were growing at 8%. They always especulates of the falling of kirchnerismo, and they know the power they have to communicate something, so its not complicated if you just put toghether these two phrases. The lies come as a necessity.

 

[Joe]

I am rather curious about the other 999,999.

To a Neo-Liberal these 999,999 are not lies. Your avatar is very appropriate: the large predator Cat, aka Neo-Liberal is out to persecute the small mouse, i.e. the poor downtrodden. Maximo and his Mama are trying to protect the poor downtrodden from the predators, the Neo-Conquistados from Spain, the Neo-Liberals.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

So i rode the new chinese subte trains. They're not bad, much more spacious layout than the old trains although there seems to be fewer trains on the line so you have to wait longer between trains.

Someone has also decided to put a sticker on each door saying thanks to Cristina for using tax payers money from the national government accounts to pay for them... Gracias Cristina for not spending the money on more designer clothes! :wub:

She renews trains from 1913 and that´s the best comment you can do. Apply for the Pulitzer.

 

[GuilleGee]

so if enelsubte.com appears somebody saying that nacion bought 37% cheaper than ciudad we must believe it?

...Nope, you can just go ahead and think that everything is one big conspiracy. Or you can give into reason, and understand that enelsubte sourced straight from a government announcement, back in the day. Enelsubte does have a purpose, to see a bigger, better subway system in Buenos Aires. If you want to see that as "political" go right ahead.

You have to look at the facts from multiple sources, and I was pointing out that from the Clarin story, an alternative source can help you understand what their article was about, and where they got it wrong. The national government had initially contracted for subway cars at a price 37% higher than what Macri now payed for the exact same cars. The story is incorrect, but the facts that were the basis for the story were valid and are worth looking at.

 

[Fredd]

Hey Guys !! what about the trains?
this is an argie discussion
Leave the "Kretina" vs. Oposition out of here please
get togehter take a mate and and discuss politics in other way
Thanks
Fredd

 

[scotttswan]

More new trains! This time for line B.

http://www.buenosaires.gob.ar/noticias/ya-llegaron-los-nuevos-coches-para-la-linea-b

I wonder when/if they'll sort the stations air con out so they don't over heat with all the trains pumping extra heat out into them.

 

[wild_horses]

Hi,

New? That is old junk from Spain. Meanwhile Linea D y E are getting worst and worst by the day.

Cheers!