Door To Door Service Experiences?

[ElQueso]

Ries, I have to say that I understand where you are coming from, but I believe you are thinking in terms of how to get a US service functioning here in Argentina. Really, you shouldn't have to get Amazon to send something here - there should be an Amazon-like service here that sells and distributes items that have already been imported into the country (for the most part) like what happens in the US. I believe that most of the stuff that gets purchased through Amazon in the US is already sitting in warehouses somewhere in the US (not 100%, but most) - it's already been imported by an importing company and their freight forwarders, who deal with customs on large basis, trade free zones, a whole bunch of complicated stuff that large volume importing goes through.

Even in the US, customs can be a bit complicated - I write software that actually deals with assigning tariff numbers (HTS - Harmonized Tariff Schedule, a sometimes loosely-applied international agreement that all countries use to define items for import and how to track duties and licenses and such) to items (imported and exported) so that, for example, the US can make sure that people who are exporting things have the proper license when it's necessary (can't export nuclear products to Iran, for example, but some companies can export to other countries and must have a license), on importing (either into the US or into other countries) that they are following whatever trade deals have been negotiated between different countries, that they are charging the correct duties, etc. Companies can be fined a lot of money for screwing up. This is what even stuff coming into the country for individuals has to go through. If it comes in through a courier service like DHL or FedEx they are the ones who are classifying the item brought in, even if it's one person - and a reason why you end up paying like $100 USD or something - it's the fee for handling your import. The guys in Correo are doing the same thing, on an individual basis.

Like many things, it is cheaper to import wholesale, and I believe it always will be. And here, things like this are multiplied manifold. Macri would have to make the system as nearly free as the US has their entire system (free as far as what you can import, I mean - the US still has tariff fees on many things, though they are mostly small when there are fees) in order to be able for individuals to import from China, for example - or from Amazon in the US.

Even when smaller shops begin importing things door-to-door on an individual basis, the only difference you will see is that things are available, but at even higher prices than, say Falabella can import the same item. It's wholesale importing vs retail importing - and then retail selling on top.

That's why I say the difference between individuals importing door-to-door is so different from companies importing wholesale and items being distributed and purchased throughout the country. The market (and therefore the effect) of companies importing huge quantities of stuff through freight forwarders is way different from individuals and a door-to-door import service and the prior is going to be more important in the short term, to everybody.

The majority of people in Argentina are going to buy their stuff already imported, from a store who has purchased from a distributor, who purchased from an importer, than they are to order things online and wait for it to be imported from another country on an individual basis.

My opinion, but explained. Although maybe not too well. Heh.

 

[Girino]

If it comes in through a courier service like DHL or FedEx they are the ones who are classifying the item brought in, even if it's one person - and a reason why you end up paying like 100 USD or something - it's the fee for handling your import. The guys in Correo are doing the same thing, on an individual basis.

In my case, the 100 USD + VAT + 250 ARS were not to be paid at the courier.
The paper I was sent said that I needed a "third party" broker to import the stuff, and from my online researches this basically meant that I had to do to a public ministry office to declare the item nature and get a statement from them that it was okay to import. Then I had to pay the 100 USD + VAT + 250 ARS before going to the Aduana with the "third party" broker paper stamped. They also wrote explicitly to not try and go to the Aduana without the receipt of the 100 USD + VAT + 250 ARS payment because they wouldn't even let you enter Aduana without it.

I even called the importer we used when moving here from Italy and he said that I was screwed and there was no way around this.

My package was blocked for "OTROS MOTIVOS" and I can't even go there and ask WHY.. Is it prohibited to import silicon? Is it illegal to use in Argentina? Who knows.... first pay, and then we will see... It doesn't seem very transparent to me.

About what others have said, maybe Macri has bigger things to deal with, but I am disappointed by the many articles parading the "new freedom" of Macri's reforms about door-to-door shippings when this is not true. It doesn't look any better than pro-K news back then.

Besides, I don't even understand the point in all of this: they didn't get any money from me, I didn't get my thing. They could have probably made more money by taxing me a reasonable amount on my small purchase (even 100% of the declared value) than on mass-import of the same item (I don't know if it is imported, at all.... they don't exactly have a knack for cooking here).

 

[ElQueso]

This is a kind of tongue-in-cheek comparison and I know it doesn't have anything to do with Argentina (nor many expats who are not Americans, though perhaps yes with many who think the US should have a system like their own country's) - but I wonder how many Obama supporters still continue to say that he did the right thing with the Affordable Health Care Act, no matter how big and horrible a mess it is. That affects a huge number of people in the US and, to me, was rammed down the country's throat in a not-so-democratic (though perhaps republican [not the party] way). Yet people still praise Obama for this. And he actually had the entire congress and at least half of the population behind him when he did it and it still turned out to be a wonder of over-priced bureaucratic idiocy.

Meanwhile, here in Argentina, Macri has to deal with a standard of incompetence in many things (Macri himself doesn't write the regulations of how things are going to work, but people who think in red tape are the ones who do it - and people here really know how to think in red tape and yeah. they screwed up), a congress that is against him, and a population that the majority of whom do not agree with him about hardly anything (they just wanted Cristina and anyone associated with her out of power, and that the bare majority). Amongst all of this, he is making inroads into corruption, has possibly stopped the shrinkage of the economy and possibly the elevation of inflation after 12 years of another group of people robbing the country blind - but a small percentage of the population are not happy because his one program "door-to-door" fell flat on it face and therefore Macri is like unto Crisitna because his one program is terrible and he was trying to sell it?

Yep, big mistake there's no doubt, but I'm just trying to say: have some perspective.

Man, people are so persnickety!

 

[Ries]

Actually, in the USA, while Amazon does stock quite a bit, an amazing amount of the stuff on both Ebay and Amazon is drop shipped direct from China.
In the last few months, I have gotten cat beds, ball bearings, water bottle caps, knitting machine parts, thread, and a wide variety of other things that I ordered from Amazon direct from China. They dont tell you on either Amazon or Ebay, unless you look very carefully, that its coming from China, and, often, they list a US address, but when the package arrives, it is straight from Asia. This is for products ranging from one dollar to ten thousand- there is an entire line of welding machines and plasma cutters, for example, with zero US companies selling them- they are all ebay, direct ship from China, at prices from $500 to $5000.
The Chinese government subsidizes postage, and the US government does not open or inspect these packages.
They number in the hundreds of millions per year.

So, there is no reason to think this would not happen in Argentina as well.

i would agree that a system that allowed Easy/Jumbo, or Falabella, or Walmart, to import in very large quantites would be much easier for the government to inspect than a few million individual packages.
Which is exactly why door to door is not being instituted in a real way.
For it to work, the government would have to give up on opening, and inspecting, every package.
Which they are not willing to do, because they are afraid that, unlike what you think, very large commerically significant amounts of electronics, clothes, and other valuables would be shipped door to door.

I think that why Macri et al is not setting up a more efficient way for large wholesalers to bring in containers, at a lower tax rate- it would accomplish what you want, lower prices on world goods- is because, as I said before, it would cause layoffs and bankruptcies.

There is nobody on earth that can compete with Pakistani and Vietnamese and Chinese sweatshops, and economy of scale.
So for lower end products, they always take over the market.
And the powers that be in Argentina, both the owners of business and the politicans, are afraid of this.

You seem to believe that door to door shipping could be done without significant effect on Argentine manufacturing and jobs.
I dont.
I still maintain that many many companies would take immediate advantage of this, and it would affect the economy on a very large scale.
My neighborhood record store would import CDs, my neighborhood sewing shop would import thread, my neighborhood deli would be importing olives and mustard- and the only way to stop this is to open and inspect every parcel.
You either allow unimpeded shipping, or you dont.
How do you determine that the package, going to a home address, is not a few dozen Iphones?

in the USA, they allow it.
Here, they are afraid to.
They do not have the infrastructure, or the budget, to xray every box, or pay the inspectors to watch the videos. So they make it so difficult that, basically, nobody tries.

 

[Girino]

Vuelve el correo puerta a puerta para las compras en el exterior



El titular de la AFIP, Alberto Abad, dijo que se eliminará la exigencia de llenar un formulario web y buscar el producto en la Aduana. No precisó a partir de cuándo.


http://tn.com.ar/economia/vuelve-el-correo-puerta-puerta-para-las-compras-en-el-exterior_657882

 

[TWB103]

Ries, I have to say that I understand where you are coming from, but I believe you are thinking in terms of how to get a US service functioning here in Argentina. Really, you shouldn't have to get Amazon to send something here - there should be an Amazon-like service here that sells and distributes items that have already been imported into the country (for the most part) like what happens in the US. I believe that most of the stuff that gets purchased through Amazon in the US is already sitting in warehouses somewhere in the US (not 100%, but most) - it's already been imported by an importing company and their freight forwarders, who deal with customs on large basis, trade free zones, a whole bunch of complicated stuff that large volume importing goes through.

Even in the US, customs can be a bit complicated - I write software that actually deals with assigning tariff numbers (HTS - Harmonized Tariff Schedule, a sometimes loosely-applied international agreement that all countries use to define items for import and how to track duties and licenses and such) to items (imported and exported) so that, for example, the US can make sure that people who are exporting things have the proper license when it's necessary (can't export nuclear products to Iran, for example, but some companies can export to other countries and must have a license), on importing (either into the US or into other countries) that they are following whatever trade deals have been negotiated between different countries, that they are charging the correct duties, etc. Companies can be fined a lot of money for screwing up. This is what even stuff coming into the country for individuals has to go through. If it comes in through a courier service like DHL or FedEx they are the ones who are classifying the item brought in, even if it's one person - and a reason why you end up paying like $100 USD or something - it's the fee for handling your import. The guys in Correo are doing the same thing, on an individual basis.

Like many things, it is cheaper to import wholesale, and I believe it always will be. And here, things like this are multiplied manifold. Macri would have to make the system as nearly free as the US has their entire system (free as far as what you can import, I mean - the US still has tariff fees on many things, though they are mostly small when there are fees) in order to be able for individuals to import from China, for example - or from Amazon in the US.

Even when smaller shops begin importing things door-to-door on an individual basis, the only difference you will see is that things are available, but at even higher prices than, say Falabella can import the same item. It's wholesale importing vs retail importing - and then retail selling on top.

That's why I say the difference between individuals importing door-to-door is so different from companies importing wholesale and items being distributed and purchased throughout the country. The market (and therefore the effect) of companies importing huge quantities of stuff through freight forwarders is way different from individuals and a door-to-door import service and the prior is going to be more important in the short term, to everybody.

The majority of people in Argentina are going to buy their stuff already imported, from a store who has purchased from a distributor, who purchased from an importer, than they are to order things online and wait for it to be imported from another country on an individual basis.

My opinion, but explained. Although maybe not too well. Heh.

What you say about retailers buying wholesale and economies of scale should make sense but doesnt apply here. With a few exceptions stuff usually costs costs 2 --> 5 times more here than it would in the US (and its usually an older model less refined with less features probably refurbished etc) The consumer here generally doesnt see those advantages. I can see a half decent toaster on amazon retail for say $20 with $10 postage and tax of $10. $40 in total. That same toaster would cost $50 or $60 equivalent in Falabella etc. When in theory for the advantages the Arg retailer has that same toaster should cost the same as or less it would cost me to buy direct from Amazon. So they buy the toaster in bulk from the wholesaler in china for $10 a unit pay $5 tax per unit and $3 for shipping costs so even if they sold that toaster here for $30 equivalent they still make a very handsome profit. It seems Argentines and us lot are getting hugely ripped off.

Buy the way you can get that 3 yr full protection no questions warranty thrown in for free on appliances bought in Falabella etc if you are prepared to push them on it. They can afford it. Its just an easy extra money making scam for them.

 

[ElQueso]

TWB, I think you missed my point (though I must admit it was dispersed among a couple of posts). It was not about Argentina lowering import duties, lowering taxes on businesses and individuals and generally making things easier, cheaper and more efficient to business. We all know that should be done (even as we watch the US get worse and worse in these terms). My entire point was that the scale you are mentioning exists, even if costs that go on top of that make it a moot point - and it still makes it easier and cheaper for companies to import in scale than it does individuals, and the reason I was mentioning that the door-to-door fiasco is not as important to Macri as other problems he has to resolve.

 

[ben]

As I'd mentioned before, from what I'm hearing the situation with wholesale import is somewhat analogous to the retail one. Marginal improvement over CFK days, far from normal by any stretch of the imagination.

Same for money stuff. It was reported on another thread that receiving a (large) bank wire from abroad is being disallowed unless approved in advance. That is insane.

What is worrying about the door to door thing is that it doesn't appear like it's simply a sliding scale, where they moved the slider a bit in the direction of loosening the restrictions and remain open to loosening them further. No, it looks like they went and created from scratch a new system - one that was doomed to fail.

It's not about the door to door experience - I never touched that system and am not about to start now - it's a canary-in-the-coal-mine situation where seems to give away a lot re the administration's capacity and/or willingness to get the problems actually solved rather than rack up points for trying. And as noted, there are plenty other examples.

I'll be thrilled to find out that I'm wrong, and that the "other problems he has to resolve" will be resolved better. I wouldn't bet an Amazon package on it.

 

[Girino]

An update about my situation:

1. I had my mother mail me another CR through the Postal Service. It arrived in 9 days. However, the postman left no notice, but luckily I had the tracking number and I was able to know my letter was sitting at the nearest Correo office. I went there with a printout of the tracking history and I was given my letter.
2. I had my Italian bank mail me a new credit card abroad. It arrived with DHL. I missed the delivery. I went to pick it up in San Telmo (only pick-up point for the whole CABA+GBA in Av. Belgrano 470) and I was charged 376 pesos for a stupid letter with a stupid card. Apparently, the card declared value was 1.76 USD and labelled as "sample card" (since it was not activated), on top of that Aduana added USD 20 for "handling", plus taxes etc.

So, rest good folks! Nothing has really changed.

 

[jantango]

Every two years in November I receive a new debit card from the USA before the current one expires. The credit union mailed it in a blank window envelope on October 25. It arrived at my door on November 4. I called the USA on November 7 to activate it. This one has a chip and expires in five years.