Economists warn electing Milei would spell devastation

[gringoexpress]

It's like saying that using a guillotine is the only way to get rid of a headache.

So, what do we have now? On one side, there's an attempt to scare people with the threat of devastation if Milei becomes president. On the other side, there are threats of a dictatorship and a military coup if Massa becomes president. Nice. Do you seriously believe that the army would stand up for Milei?

Was the military involved in any way with the disputes over electoral fraud following the last elections in the USA? The military usually comes to power after periods of devastation, when people are looking for a strong hand.

There are no threats of dictatorship is Massa is elected president, the threat is if he becomes president through fraud. I can't find the article right now but there was an article about 5 weeks ago about him bringing in Lula's "election advisory" team to help him beat Millei. Millions of people were protesting in front of the military bases in Brazil asking the military to use their constitutional authority to fix the stolen election and they didn't. Millei does not have the level of popular support Bolsonaro did, however, if the election is clearly stolen in the same manner perhaps whoever is supporting these rigged elections has their energies occupied somewhere else to where the military could intervene without fearing foreign interference, but I find the idea unlikely here in Argentina. I'm merely mentioning that preventing, rather than encouraging, election fraud should be a very important principle to those who do not want a dictatorship.

 

[lunar]

There are no threats of dictatorship is Massa is elected president, the threat is if he becomes president through fraud.

Would it be OK if Milei becomes a president through fraud?

I believe that to scream 'Fraud!' one should at least wait until after the elections have started. I'm aware that this has never stopped Donald Trump from making such claims, but regardless, it's a reasonable approach.

As for inviting foreign 'campaign consultants,' it seems to be a standard practice for quite a long time. For example, consider Yeltsin's 1996 campaign, which involved a team of American consultants

 

[gringoexpress]

Would it be OK if Milei becomes a president through fraud?

I believe that to scream 'Fraud!' one should at least wait until after the elections have started. I'm aware that this has never stopped Donald Trump from making such claims, but regardless, it's a reasonable approach.

As for inviting foreign 'campaign consultants,' it seems to be a standard practice for quite a long time. For example, consider Yeltsin's 1996 campaign, which involved a team of American consultants

I haven't seen videos of Millei supporters destroying ballots for Massa posted on social media, nor has Millei invited foreign professional electoral fraud coordinators to help him steal the election. I don't think Millei stealing the election through fraud is on the table because he isn't a criminal.

And look how Russia benefitted after Yeltsin got in office. Never knew that the usual suspects helped ensure "fair and transparent" elections there too.

 

[lunar]

And look how Russia benefitted after Yeltsin got in office.

So, it's not really about fraud or irregularities during the elections; rather, you believe you know what's best for Argentinians, Russians, and everyone else.

 

[gringoexpress]

So, it's not really about fraud or irregularities during the elections; rather, you believe you know what's best for Argentinians, Russians, and everyone else.

Actually, it is about election fraud. The US has a history of going in and throwing color revolutions, manipulating the election, and afterwards getting a country that does what they're told, to the detriment of the people who live there. Now that the same thing has happened in the US, it's becoming clear that the US isn't the one calling the shots, but it is 100% about election fraud because it removes the ability of the people to choose their own destiny through non-violent means. I hadn't realized that the US went in and helped the Russians with their election, it's an interesting fact that I had not previously been aware of..

Now, in hindsight, it makes a lot of sense; the idea of "sovereign democracy," i.e., the Russian people deciding the future of their own nation free of foreign interference has certainly made its mark on the national character, which is why it has become such a cornerstone of Russian foreign policy. Yeltsin receiving foreign "assistance" to trash the nation and sell it off to foreigners would certainly be a catalyst for such opinions being imprinted upon the collective Russian psyche.

 

[Jimbob]

O.K, but Italy is not far behind at all. and in regards to Germany they are going through a lot of troubles. Tell us what tools they Have? Go ahead fact check me.

Exclusive: German government expects economy to shrink 0.4% in 2023

Germany's government expects the economy to shrink by 0.4% this year due to high inflation, high energy prices and weak international trade, government sources told Reuters on Friday.

www.reuters.com

I said resources not tools. Germany has Europes biggest economy and the worlds fourth. Economy collapsing is just mindless sensationalism.

You then quote an article that you clearly haven't read, expecting 0.4% shrink this year followed by 1.3% growth and 1.5% growth in 2023 and 2024 respectively. I mean come on, this is clearly said in the second paragraph.

Embarrassing mate.

 

[Jimbob]

I said resources not tools. Germany has Europes biggest economy and the worlds fourth. Economy collapsing is just mindless sensationalism.

You then quote an article that you clearly haven't read, expecting 0.4% shrink this year followed by 1.3% growth and 1.5% growth in 2023 and 2024 respectively. I mean come on, this is clearly said in the second paragraph.

Embarrassing mate.

*2024 and 2025 respectively

 

[wrangler]

I said resources not tools. Germany has Europes biggest economy and the worlds fourth. Economy collapsing is just mindless sensationalism.

You then quote an article that you clearly haven't read, expecting 0.4% shrink this year followed by 1.3% growth and 1.5% growth in 2023 and 2024 respectively. I mean come on, this is clearly said in the second paragraph.

Embarrassing mate.

You are mistaken, I have read it. You are trying to pretend like things are well in Germany, and they just are not. They are having a housing crises as well....Projections into the future don't mean anything. They are often wrong. They tend to paint a rosy picture, but the situation usually ends up worse than they say, or predict it will be. .

German housebuilding is collapsing — and could drag the economy down with it

German housebuilding is on the brink of collapse as construction is slowing, and the country's broader economy could be negatively impacted, experts say.

www.cnbc.com

 

[antipodean]

You are mistaken, I have read it. You are trying to pretend like things are well in Germany, and they just are not. They are having a housing crises as well....Projections into the future don't mean anything. They are often wrong. They tend to paint a rosy picture, but the situation usually ends up worse than they say, or predict it will be. .

German housebuilding is collapsing — and could drag the economy down with it

German housebuilding is on the brink of collapse as construction is slowing, and the country's broader economy could be negatively impacted, experts say.

www.cnbc.com

Duisburg, Germany’s poorest city:


Out of interest, when was the last time you were in Germany to see its “troubles” first hand?

I guess with its 10.9% poverty rate (and EUR1126 monthly income poverty line - o sea - ARS 430k official/ ARS 1.186.800 blue) all those poor Germans migrating to Argentina to be poor Argentines and enjoy its high quality public healthcare, education and social welfare programs must be a clear giveaway that all is not well?
A terrible model to strive for.

But I get it, just as Fernandez was sprouting four years ago when he was looking votes, if we vote Massa this time, Argentines will live like Norway… only with a closed economy, large population and rampant corruption… and even if that doesn’t transpire, don’t worry as even Germany is collapsing too so Argentina is in good company and it somehow explains everything and why it’s totally not Massa’s (or any other Peronist’s) fault.

 

[ArgentinaVet]

"Economic Devastation" is exactly the current status quo in Argentina under the current Minister of the Economy and de-facto acting President Sergio Massa.

Think hard on just how catastrophic the economic data is under the Massa regime:
-200%+ annualized inflation (prices TRIPLING annually, this is with full blown economic repression and numbers suppressed/subsidized prices)
- USD free market cash rate from under 300 to 1000
- negative BCRA reserves
- $20 billion + USD of unpaid imports
- Minimum wage of $160 USD per month, Miniunum retirement $90 USD per month.
-42% poverty, 65% children in poverty

Sergio Massa should be ashamed of himself for running for President with this record and the Argentine voters will deserve what they get if the majority of them vote for a continuation of this criminally incompetent regime.