Saw a poster today calling the people of Argentina to a gathering with the headline "Pueblo o corporaciones"..? What`s that - like being offered the choice between air and water to live? Business and particularly private enterprise is a necessary evil for any country and its citizenships to survive never mind prosper and that is a basic tenet that even my 2yr old could grasp.
En Negro
- Thread starter jb5
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citygirl said:
Exactly! I think you misunderstood my point in my previous post, Guillo. Foreign companies, are among the only ones here, it seems, that are playing fair. It is precisely these companies that are providing well-paid, often outsourced positions at fair rates and in blanco. Unfortunately, it is the system, the lack of controls within the system and the fact that the government makes it so difficult for companies who are playing by the rules here to survive which will likely see the end of foreign investment in Argentina...to the detriment of Argentina!
In Citygirl's other thread about salaries, she was asking advice about how to compensate her employees further given that she could not afford 30/40% raises (which sucks, but no company, foreign or argentine can keep up with inflation!). The only people I know who have been given decent raises in the past couple of years are either the few Union-protect employees (unions which, imho are helping to keep inflation high, causing businesses to struggle in the current climate and making it twice as bad for those of us who don't have union protection) or those working for foreign companies. I work for an Argentine firm and was given a 10% raise 18 months ago (this is not an unusual case). My salary is now worth 50% less than when I started (not unusual). The owners of the company avoid as many taxes as they can and keep as much of the company earnings in foreign bank accounts outside Argentina (not unusual).
My point is that it's the Argentine companies employing in negro, the Argentine companies paying shitty wages, the Argentine companies avoiding taxes and the Argentine companies wiring its earnings abroad.
Wake up!
notebook.fix
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Hi Fifs2, what amazes me most is the way some locals here confuse Global Corporate dictatorships with free markets & non predatory, sustainable capitalism.
It's like hoping into a time capsule & going back 50 years....but with the only difference being that the Internet is switched on.... It can be really exhausting having to argue with the political mentality of a significant majority here who are lost in some out of date ideologies from a pre Berlin wall time when the Soviet Union was still seen as a 'Model' worth studying.. It's like they are in urgent need of a firmware upgrade... their old & antiquated political belief system is in a sad state of neglect...politically vulnerable to Politicos that feed of & capitalize on the abundance of ignorance available here...they can easily 'infect' the simple minded left wingers here with their own political brand of spam & 'malware'..paralyzing economic activity & at the same time entrenching the mafia's political power base...
I'm a techie...forgive the symbolic terminology.
I think that for the old Populist propaganda machine peddlers this country is a Goldmine....Crisitna's capitalizing quite well on this front.
It's like hoping into a time capsule & going back 50 years....but with the only difference being that the Internet is switched on.... It can be really exhausting having to argue with the political mentality of a significant majority here who are lost in some out of date ideologies from a pre Berlin wall time when the Soviet Union was still seen as a 'Model' worth studying.. It's like they are in urgent need of a firmware upgrade... their old & antiquated political belief system is in a sad state of neglect...politically vulnerable to Politicos that feed of & capitalize on the abundance of ignorance available here...they can easily 'infect' the simple minded left wingers here with their own political brand of spam & 'malware'..paralyzing economic activity & at the same time entrenching the mafia's political power base...
I'm a techie...forgive the symbolic terminology.I think that for the old Populist propaganda machine peddlers this country is a Goldmine....Crisitna's capitalizing quite well on this front.
fifs2 said:
Citygirl, your company's leaving is very sad. What it portends is even sadder.
It seems Guillo and a large swath of Argentines will watch poverty get much worse and the number of Argentines living in poverty continue to rise before they get it. That in reality, it's they who have to change or live in a country rapidly declining to hold onto a sense of pride not derived from reality.
I'm not sure how he and so many others can continue to live in a declining bubble while so much of the world has embraced a global economy which is benefiting developing countries. Guillo believes Americans have a superiority complex. He thinks the next big things in technology are as likely to come out of Argentina as they are to come out of the Silicon Valley.
This, purely and simply, is delusional. A type of delusion that comes from a constant stream of propaganda from a government that controls the media. Somehow many Argentines are able to ignore the devastating facts. The fact that the country has been in decline for a century. The leadership of LAM was theirs to lose and they lost it. That the rest of LAM is passing Argentina by in so many ways--better educating their populations as education declines in AR, being on the receiving end of much needed foreign investment, watching poverty decline as Argentina watches their's increase.
In all of Guillo's posts there's a startling ability to ignore how many of his countrymen are out of work or underemployed. He seems to believe Citygirl's 10 workers will get equal new jobs from a company who will play by his rules. Yet we all know they won't.
Is it all OK because you have a job Guillo? Do your nationalistic sentiments include caring about all of those sinking further into poverty in a country where it's impossible to create jobs without outside investment?
As I keep saying, it's all so sad. Good employers like Citygirl being chased out. The employers who come in after the next crash will be there to take advantage of the crisis, they won't be those who love the city and the country and wanted to make it the powerhouse of LAM.
It seems Guillo and a large swath of Argentines will watch poverty get much worse and the number of Argentines living in poverty continue to rise before they get it. That in reality, it's they who have to change or live in a country rapidly declining to hold onto a sense of pride not derived from reality.
I'm not sure how he and so many others can continue to live in a declining bubble while so much of the world has embraced a global economy which is benefiting developing countries. Guillo believes Americans have a superiority complex. He thinks the next big things in technology are as likely to come out of Argentina as they are to come out of the Silicon Valley.
This, purely and simply, is delusional. A type of delusion that comes from a constant stream of propaganda from a government that controls the media. Somehow many Argentines are able to ignore the devastating facts. The fact that the country has been in decline for a century. The leadership of LAM was theirs to lose and they lost it. That the rest of LAM is passing Argentina by in so many ways--better educating their populations as education declines in AR, being on the receiving end of much needed foreign investment, watching poverty decline as Argentina watches their's increase.
In all of Guillo's posts there's a startling ability to ignore how many of his countrymen are out of work or underemployed. He seems to believe Citygirl's 10 workers will get equal new jobs from a company who will play by his rules. Yet we all know they won't.
Is it all OK because you have a job Guillo? Do your nationalistic sentiments include caring about all of those sinking further into poverty in a country where it's impossible to create jobs without outside investment?
As I keep saying, it's all so sad. Good employers like Citygirl being chased out. The employers who come in after the next crash will be there to take advantage of the crisis, they won't be those who love the city and the country and wanted to make it the powerhouse of LAM.
jazrgz
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notebook.fix said:Hi Fifs2, what amazes me most is the way some locals here confuse Global Corporate dictatorships with free markets & non predatory capitalism.
It's like hoping into a time capsule & going back 50 years in time....but only with the difference of having the Internet switched on.... It can be really exhausting having to argue with the political mentality of a significant majority here who are lost in some out of date ideologies from a pre Berlin wall time when the Soviet Union was still seen as a 'Model' worth studying.. It's like they are in urgent need of a firmware upgrade... their old & antiquated political belief system is in a sad state of neglect...politically vulnerable to Politicos that thrive & capitalize on the abundance of ignorance available here...they can easily 'infect' the simple minded left wingers here with their own political brand of spam & 'malware'..paralyzing economic activity & at the same time entrenching the mafia's political power base...
I think that for the old Populist propaganda machine peddlers this country is a Goldmine....Crisitna's capitalizing quite well on this front.
Perfect description ! right on the spot !
Keep in mind that to this date, and ever since a can remember, the #1 topic being taught and imposed on every public school and college is Marx and his rightfull ways ! of course che guevara and the 70´s are as popular ! You literally cannot find in any on these buildings a blank spot on any wall ! they are covered (literally) with comunist propaganda ! (when i was 20 yrs old I started taking accounting in UBA. A dude starting with me dared to stick a little flyer announcing a trip organized by his local church to a villa (cant remember which one) in order to provide food and clothes)
Two days later 4 thirty something thugs were outside our class waiting for him. They took him into an empty room and made it very clear. This Church crap do not have any place here. If we see this flyer again we know who you are and how to find you ! that´s all they had to say, the poor kid got the hell out of there ! (I was there and got scared shitless as well)....anyways, the Comunist/anti Imperialist/anti USA / anti Military propaganda is very strong here and is forced into every kid assisting to any public educational facility ! Most teachers (not all luckily) perform the same intimidation (if you ever say anything against this beliefs you can pretty much kiss good bye any chances of passing). This explains, for the most part why we still have so many Argentinians (of any age) believing this crap ! .....Once Again, sad but true !!
From your link:notebook.fix said:
"To harass or worry by wrangling"
(I didn't know it was archaic, sorry).
Wrangling: An angry, noisy argument or dispute.
Ok, I'll bite.
For you to say that YOU believe that a left leaning government is impossible, that the only path is the right leaning, capitalist one, and that just because a bunch of thieves use the flags of the progressive government to further their interests mean that a progressive government is not possible, is nothing short of bullshit, sorry. That's YOUR opinion, not much more than that. And your simple and stupid analysis of inmigration also showed you as a ignorant biggot.
I might add that your opinions can be valid as mine, but I wont because you are an asshole, or at least write like one.
You seem to be out of your depth if you can't diferenciate facts from opinons.
I'm still waiting for your arguments, experience, or anything else that pure insults and calling me names. If that's your idea of intelligent discussion.... farewell hermano, you've just joined Lucas in my ignore list.
Guillo said:
Hey Guillo, please give us one example of a far left leaning (progressive) government or country that is experiencing growth while reducing poverty, winning global investment dollars, and adhering to basic human rights. NOTE: CHINA is NOT an example so please don't try to argue them (you'll get eaten alive
)Also, if possible, try and name one far left country in the last 20/30 years that hasn't been destroyed or broken up into other countries/social orders?
NOT trying to be argumentative, but I'd like you to back up your statement above.
No, the issue was that YOU said that you are BETTER than the rest, that you are the BRAIN of the world while the rest is cheap labor.
That's superiority complex for me.
Mmmm something doesn't fit. Conditions are against outside investments, according to you. Why do you keep moving in then? You are also doing so yourself, why?
Actually, citigirl was unable to sustain working here. I don't know if she moved before or after the 2001 crash, but that would be interesting to know.
I'm not going to do homework for you. Feel free to peruse google all you want.
You guys need to stop assuming that the US, 100% capitalist way is the only way for the rest of the world. You CANT apply your values into any other society, specially if you want to fit in it.
As a country, we will to choose our own way, according to our values. And with all the failures and problems, I'd rather be here than be in the US.
Which brings me back to...why are you still here?
notebook.fix
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Guillo said:
You're getting emotional with me Guillo....you have descended into name calling now.... please take a deep breath...I think you're hearing things.
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