Expat cleaning person?

[TheBlackHand]

15 pesos was the going rate two years ago. That is what I used to pay. If you haven't given her a raise in two year and you feel that's okay, that's up to you but I can't do that to someone I value.

The minimum you should be paying is 20 pesos. Inflation is in the double digits and the peso has tanked 25% and you think it's okay to pay an old woman 3 dollars and 50 cents an hour to clean your house ? Seriously ?

I pay mine 15 pesos/hour and she's awesome. An older woman, works very hard, and has been with me for a long time. I put her in blanco, too. I've been out of the expat circles for all these years and know mostly Argies, and found mine through an Argie connection. Based on my experience, 25 pesos/hour is the rate they charge foreigners while 15 pesos/hour is the rate they charge Argies.

 

[MorganF]

I've given her a raise every time she asks. She loves us. I pay her more than the other people that hire her. I put her "en blanco", something that none of her other employees did: she burst out crying with happiness when I told her. I know a lot of Argies here and they all pay 15 or less. (2 years ago I was paying 13 then 14 last year.) I think it seems like you're paying the foreigner rate, for better or worse. Are both you and your spouse expats or is one of you Argentine?

Imagine taking a cab in NY, and seeing how much it costs and then thinking about the cost of living in Manhattan [note: my maid lives in the provincia, out there] and thinking the cabbies deserved more ("how can someone drive me for 20 minutes and only make $20?!?! How can someone live on that in Manhattan??") -- and imagine, in NY there were a culture where, foreigners in taxies were charged double... would you think it would be unfair to only pay the cabbie the local NY rate? I don't think so at all!

Another alternate explanation: maybe I pay her less because I pay her "en blanco", that is, fully legally, so she has taxes, social security, health insurance (that I also pay a few pesos/month for) and all of that. Do you pay that for her? Perhaps she charges you more because it is "en negro" (to compensate for it being illegal, no social security, no health insurance, etc). Do you think it's okay to pay an old woman illegally to deny her social security and health insurance? Seriously?

These are the best theories I can think of. I don't know which one it is. Or maybe a bit of both?

I've been in Argentina 11 years and, in almost every industry I know of (excluding those with very tightly controlled pricing), there are "local" and "foreigner" rates. I've been integrated enough so that I work with the local rates. BTW I think this is one of the causes of poverty in Arg: if there were standard rates for everyone, and they didn't try to rip off people who they thought had more money, then I think it would be a richer place for everyone. See the USA for example.

 

[LAtoBA]

I pay mine 15 pesos/hour and she's awesome. An older woman, works very hard, and has been with me for a long time. I put her in blanco, too. I've been out of the expat circles for all these years and know mostly Argies, and found mine through an Argie connection. Based on my experience, 25 pesos/hour is the rate they charge foreigners while 15 pesos/hour is the rate they charge Argies.

Not that I'm judging anyone here but just because there are Argentines are paying 15 pesos an hour doesn't make it a livable wage or okay. 25 pesos has nothing to do with being a foreigner. My boss is in charge of paying the cleaning staff and he is Argentine. At the end of the day it's about being fair, recognizing that wages can't stay stagnant for long in a country with 20% inflation, recognizing that your cleaning staff has to somehow make a living off of that wage, and recognizing that many Argentines underpay their cleaning ladies with the justification that they are mostly foreigners, uneducated and should just be happy with a job. Again 25 pesos is extra.....20 is not and is a respectable and decent wage. 15 just isn't. Just because the cleaning staff appears happy with 15 doesn't mean they are. If people on this board really think 15 pesos an hour is a generous wage with 20% + inflation they are dreaming. Sorry.

 

[fifs2]

Inflation is in the double digits and the peso has tanked 25% and you think it's okay to pay an old woman 3 dollars and 50 cents an hour to clean your house ? Seriously ?[/quote]

If you or your cleaning lady are constantly mentally converting her pay into dollars you arent thinking or living like locals...overpaying is an expats way of salving their conscience and is as bad as underpaying. At 17 per hour, en blanco my lady with us for 7 straight years is treated like a member of my family and has many many perks that she values as do we. I dont say 17 is the right amount but them Im not into preaching ....

 

[fifs2]

As an fyi in the celtic tiger that was ireland 1995 - 2008 ie the leading economy in Europe we paid our cleaning lady 5 euros per hour...and the standard or cost of living ha snoweger reached those levels. Maybe Im just trying to justify my meagre 17 pesos..but Im a nice person and shes lovely and happy so maybe thats what really matters.

 

[citygirl]

FWIW - as I said, no one I know personally is paying anywhere close to 25 pesos an hour. Most people I know are paying from 14 pesos (outside of BA) to 20 pesos an hour for an hourly (once or twice a week) cleaning person. Less for a full-time cleaning person.

15 pesos an hour * 8 hours a day * 5 days a week (and most cleaning woman work 6 but lets say 5) = 2400 pesos a month. Since that's en negro the majority of the time, that's what they have in hand at the end of the month.

 

[MorganF]

Questions to those guys advocating 20 or 25 pesos/hour over 15: are you all paying your maids "en blanco" + health insurance for her? If the answer is "no", then my question is: do you seriously think it's okay to pay someone more yet deny them health insurance, social security, retirement and the stability of working legally under the law? Really?

If your boss told you, "I will not tell the government I'm hiring you and you can not tell the government that you're working for me; I will not give you health insurance; I will not pay your social security taxes; I will not pay you any money if I fire you... but I'll pay you an extra us$1/hour instead".... what would you feel about your boss?

I'm actually asking this seriously: with a straight face, are you advocating paying her a dollar more per hour than I'm paying yet not giving her health insurance nor social security nor employing her legally nor retirement etc? Isn't that a tad weird, to feel all moral and righteous about paying her $1 hour/more but refuse to pay her legally nor health insurance nor social security retirement etc??

Have you thought about what happens in your poor maid gets sick or needs to be hospitalized?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[MorganF]

BTW: I'm old to BA but new to this site -- I think this is my first disagreement/argument on the site! hahaha I think this means it's time for me to go to bed, that I've probably been spending too much time on the site these days. Sorry I just love your site and I'm happy I found you guys! (Even if sometimes we might disagree, like in this thread!)

 

[citygirl]

MorganF - how often does your cleaning woman work for you?

 

[LAtoBA]

Questions to those guys advocating 20 or 25 pesos/hour over 15: are you all paying your maids "en blanco" + health insurance for her? If the answer is "no", then my question is: do you seriously think it's okay to pay someone more yet deny them health insurance, social security, retirement and the stability of working legally under the law? Really?

If your boss told you, "I will not tell the government I'm hiring you and you can not tell the government that you're working for me; I will not give you health insurance; I will not pay your social security taxes; I will not pay you any money if I fire you... but I'll pay you an extra us$1/hour instead".... what would you feel about your boss?

I'm actually asking this seriously: with a straight face, are you advocating paying her a dollar more per hour than I'm paying yet not giving her health insurance nor social security nor employing her legally nor retirement etc? Isn't that a tad weird, to feel all moral and righteous about paying her $1 hour/more but refuse to pay her legally nor health insurance nor social security retirement etc??

Have you thought about what happens in your poor maid gets sick or needs to be hospitalized?!?!?!?!?!?!

Yes they are "en blanco" because they work for the company. I'd be willing to bet however that most expats don't pay their personal cleaning lady "en blanco" so kudos to you on that one. Me.....I don't have one for my place.....trying to save .