Expat cleaning person?

[MorganF]

2 days/week, for about 3.5 hours each time. (I try to live American-style where I do most of the cleaning myself; she just helps out doing the intense cleaning; one of the things I dislike about Argentina is that many middle class people have a culture where maids clean up their sh*t after them, while I like to clean up my own sh*t after myself - well, I don't like to actually, but I feel like it's the right thing to do.) Note that I am not legally obligated to notify the government that she works for me (there's some minimum number of hours per week that's higher than mine, I forget what it is). I made her "en blanco" because, I just value her having health insurance in case she gets sick, I value doing everything legally whenever possible, her getting retirement and social security, giving her emotional stability, etc....

 

[Canick]

to compare hourly wages we should make clear that a maid that comes in for 2-3 hours once a week to clean, charges a very different rate than someone who is guaranteed 30-40 hours a week... and usually a different rate all together if she sleeps there too.

 

[TheBlackHand]

BTW: I'm old to BA but new to this site -- I think this is my first disagreement/argument on the site! hahaha I think this means it's time for me to go to bed, that I've probably been spending too much time on the site these days. Sorry I just love your site and I'm happy I found you guys! (Even if sometimes we might disagree, like in this thread!)

7 hours a week and you think having her " en blanco " is really benefiting her ? Have her " en blanco " and pay her a decent wage.

 

[igor]

If your boss told you, "I will not tell the government I'm hiring you and you can not tell the government that you're working for me; I will not give you health insurance; I will not pay your social security taxes; I will not pay you any money if I fire you... but I'll pay you an extra us$1/hour instead".... what would you feel about your boss?

I guess you've never worked as a contractor. Charge your boss more and get your own health insurance and your own retirement plan. And everybody feels great about it.

 

[LAtoBA]

Most people I know are paying from 14 pesos (outside of BA) to 20 pesos an hour for an hourly (once or twice a week) cleaning person.

Yes.....exactly what me and Perry said. 20/hour. What's the issue? I'm not saying 14 or 15 is a bad wage or makes someone immoral. What I'm saying is that just because that is the wage doesn't make it a reasonable or realistic wage to live off of. Businesses have the same logic in the US regarding the minimum wage. Unfortunately the minimum wage doesn't necessarily translate to a livable wage in any major city, ie NYC or LA working a 40 hour work week. If someone was paying their cleaning staff 15 pesos in April of last year how can they possibly justify not giving them a raise in this inflationary environment? If inflation was 1 or 2% it would be a different story. It's not.

 

[TheBlackHand]

this is completely true. I only have my cleaning lady over twice a week at 4 hours each time. I'm sure we'd work out a rate if she was working full time. But as you said, that's different.

to compare hourly wages we should make clear that a maid that comes in for 2-3 hours once a week to clean, charges a very different rate than someone who is guaranteed 30-40 hours a week... and usually a different rate all together if she sleeps there too.

 

[MorganF]

Blackhand, it costs money and taxes to have her en blanco and pay her health insurance and taxes.

It seems like you and I have a core philosophical difference: I have limited money and I'd rather pay her what all the Argies I know say is the going rate and more than what her other clients pay her AND use the extra money to pay for her health insurance and taxes. It seems like you would rather pay her more BUT not tell the government you're employing her, not pay her taxes, not pay for health insurance for her, not pay for retirement/social security for her/etc. Which one of us is right? Who knows!!!

TheBlackHand: if you don't pay for your maid's health insurance, do you worry about what will happen to her if he-or-she gets sick? Or one of his/her kids? Or if they have a major accident? (Have you seen a public hospitals in the poor parts of the province and how disgusting they are?)

BTW, I will add that my maid is in serious demand, she works long days and enjoys it (chats with everyone all afternoon while she works and tells great stories etc!) and I'm the only one paying her en blanco and I single handedly pay her health insurance because none of her other employers will chip in.

 

[fifs2]

Maybe we need to forget the rights and wrongs of the hourly rate in a country where statistics are less stable than jello and take pride in how we treat our cleaners as I too have found the class discrimination (as well as racial) shocking. At our school, one mum is known for referring to her cleaner as La peruana...unbelievable. Basic decency needs apply- when you're having a cup of tea/coffee, do you offer her one? Do you require her to wear a uniform for your ego or her needs? Do you see her, talk to her outside the work environment? There's no recipe for staff mgmt either but I sure hope us expats are raising the v low bar Im witnessed with even close friends who would never share a cup of coffee with a cleaner...

 

[MorganF]

Maybe we need to forget the rights and wrongs of the hourly rate in a country where statistics are less stable than jello and take pride in how we treat our cleaners as I too have found the class discrimination (as well as racial) shocking. At our school, one mum is known for referring to her cleaner as La peruana...unbelievable. Basic decency needs apply- when you're having a cup of tea/coffee, do you offer her one? Do you require her to wear a uniform for your ego or her needs? Do you see her, talk to her outside the work environment? There's no recipe for staff mgmt either but I sure hope us expats are raising the v low bar Im witnessed with even close friends who would never share a cup of coffee with a cleaner...

@fifs2 : I agree 100%. The woman who lives below me treats her maid like a sub-human, it's heart-breaking. Mine is very close to being a part of the family. That's only a very slight exaggeration. She's awwwwwesome.

 

[jez]

Another alternate explanation: maybe I pay her less because I pay her "en blanco", that is, fully legally, so she has taxes, social security, health insurance (that I also pay a few pesos/month for) and all of that. Do you pay that for her? Perhaps she charges you more because it is "en negro" (to compensate for it being illegal, no social security, no health insurance, etc). Do you think it's okay to pay an old woman illegally to deny her social security and health insurance? Seriously?

I'm curious how you pay her in blanco. Are you an employer (you have a company and she works for you) or is she a monotributo and is self employed? How does someone who needs a cleaner pay in blanco?