Feminist Group

[Borracho Britanico]

This topic reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Adeb370CWI

 

[Joe]

Modern Society itself is contrary to the nature of men. From the youngest age, I've seen my friends' children. The boys are usually much more aggressive and destructive than the girls and they take more supervision. In the jungle, it wouldn't be an issue.

Basically men are wild horses that are broken (to fit into society) - hence the higher suicide rate.

 

[Yogur griego]

Modern Society itself is contrary to the nature of men. From the youngest age, I've seen my friends' children. The boys are usually much more aggressive and destructive than the girls and they take more supervision. In the jungle, it wouldn't be an issue.

Basically men are wild horses that are broken (to fit into society) - hence the higher suicide rate.

With due respect to female emancipation- there are definitely a lot of things that no feminist discourse will ever change. We are, in essence, impertinent monkeys who, because of a cruel coincidence, are capable of reason. I am not among those who are inclined to think that many of our basic instincts will ever change.

 

[Yogur griego]

This topic reminds me of this:

That's so beautifully cynical - thanks for sharing this.

 

[Inferno.]

...off the cuff. Can't achieve:

- having male platonic friends who aren't gay
-not having good old-fashion friendliness misinterpreted as romantic interest
- being invited by a work colleague for 'coffee' on the pretense of talking about a project and having the expectation they will remain professional
- walking down the street without receiving comments on one's appearance, even dressed as babushka in the bread line (and sometimes these comments are even tips on how you could improve yr appearance. Why thanks, grandpa! -- Nevermind that whole reason I'm dressed like this in the first place is b/c I don't enjoy blatant scrutiny of my body by viejo verdes like you!)
- not facing passive aggression or inexplicable mala onda from wives/girlfriends of colleagues who inherently see you as a threat, even though you have no interest in their man and would never be a homewrecker


It's not all bad though. The catcalls in my barrio in NYC were more often vulgar in nature -- here they are usually benign. In relationships the men here are ‘compañeros’ and they rarely abandon their kids. And at least men walk you home or to grab a cab, which is just common courtesy, sometimes overlooked in more individualist cultures. Believing women to be equal and having good manners shouldn’t be mutually exclusive.

I would love to see a feminist movement here that is not the exclusionary and self-defeating 'slutwalk'.

First, thanks for that list. I do have to say that I think is good that you are only complaining about those items and not feeling that your ideas, job promotions/possibilities, or anything with a lot more weight and importance, is being disregarded because you don't have the same genitals that a man. I fully support the idea that we are equal and we all should have the same possibilities, but not by losing our gender and the unique things that make you a female, and me a man. There is a line. That's what I don't usually see when I read sometimes opinions of hard-core feminists that puts us as a caveman who should be executed on sight for being to dumb too coexists with a girl.

I don't want to go point-by-point, but why can't you achieve the first 3? Are you saying every male in argentina is unable to get close to a girl without having second intentions? For example, I loved to have a cup of coffee with my female-coworkers without wanting to get into her pants. Years ago, I had a coworker that lived really close to me, so we took the same bus to our respective homes at the end of the day -during a year until I left-. She was indeed pretty, but I never wanted to have something with her, nor I believe her with me. I'm certainly not gay and I do like women very much. Are you 100% sure that you never sent a mix signal to the other side? Just a tip (please dont take it the wrong way), but most men can't understand an indirect. Sometimes a direct approach is needed to put things really clear for both parts (like saying: hey, just to be clear, I love hanging out with you, but I'm not interested in having sex with you or becoming your girlfriend, is that okay with you? I dont want to give you false hopes). This is way better than thinking the other part is feeling the same as you.

I laughed at the babushka comment, haha. I agree with you, but this also happens because a lot of women like that sort of approach and see some comments as a ego booster and makes them happy. As someone said, it takes two to tango. You may disagree with this, but then you should ask all the women in Argentina to stop this behavior if you really want things to change in this country. I for one only say things to girls who are really close to me and depending the situation of course. I'm not going to whistle to a girl in the street because.. well, because that's not me. I do know that's this is just my opinion and my experience, but again, it is a cultural thing in argentina -shared by both men and women-. You for example are just caught in the cross fire. And well, I hope you do know there are jerks in every country, that doesn't mean everyone is like that. Don't change the way you dress for a few morons.

My two cents.

 

[shoush]

come on! have you guys watched television in Argentina???? pretty much like watching a piece of lomo dancing on a stripper pole! who cares of the president is a woman, it is because her husband was the ex-president.
I am from Canada but from Egypt Originally, and let me tell you being blonde with blue eyes walking around Cairo can be horrendous as well as here, having to avoid construction sites, Canada is nothing like these places.
Im an old fashioned girl, definitely not a feminist, but i can attest that Argentina treats woman much differently then men.

 

[Nounou]

It's strange, but I remember all the above arguments used 30 years ago , ok I'm showing my age, lol. But the simple fact is women have come a long way, but we still have so much more to attain in terms of legislated and demonstrated equality. The bad news is girls, we still have a battle on our hands and it is we, along with those (not so few any more......this one is for you boys ) enlightened men who must lead the way.

Shoush, you have hit the nail on the head as to one of the major offenders...television! But television in any country, not just Argentina. Sadly, unless your name is Barbara Walters, god bless her, as a woman you are seldom taken seriously and are put out to pasture if you hit the magic age of 40, and this is the way of the world even in so called 'serious' TV. As for run of the mill programming the issue gets worse, especially in the way women are portrayed.

Joe, you talk about the aggressive state of many young males, and you are right. All in all its seen as a natural for male children to be more aggressive/assertive in thier play or actions, but tell me, have you checked out the female equivalent recently, especially in teen females, you might be shocked. We have a phenomenon here in Australia, the incidence of female on female and female on male violence is on the rise. Actually it is something that is kicking off in many western societies. I put it down to the high rate of dysfunction in families, social networking, and the fact that due to changes in society a significant number of youth thesedays have poor life and social skills.

I could go on, but I won't as I will bore the thread to death. Suffice to say 2 things are apparent to me, we need to educate and we need to communicate more effectively. Finally, and on a lighter note, when you get to my age girls, you might be gratefull for the occasional (i,e, once every 3 years) woolf whistle.....does your ego a power of good... lol.

 

[trennod]

Agree with your comments about Australia, Ill add there are many "aussie chicks" on the whole basically act like blokes with wigs. In rough night spots, they are fighting just like the guys, drinking like them. Pretty unattractive, as I am sure it is the other way around.
Its one of the reasons Argy girls are a nice change (despite the high drama) I like a lady to act like a lady (and I am not referring to a housewife, I can look after myself) and I like the fact they take pride in their appearance, dont engage in heavy drinking etc.

 

[Yogur griego]

Its one of the reasons Argy girls are a nice change (despite the high drama) I like a lady to act like a lady (and I am not referring to a housewife, I can look after myself) and I like the fact they take pride in their appearance.

I absolutely agree with this. I tend to find real latinas (although the high drama often gets a bit too much there) and Argentine/southern European girls much more feminine in a positive way than northern European/American girls. So, without the intention of insulting some chicas here, in a general sense I especially tend to find American women graceless, crude and somewhat too masculine. I see a lot of people complain here about a dominant culture of a superficial focus on appearance, but on the other hand, there is also a culture that brings emancipation way too far, in the sense of wanting to equalize even our identities as man and woman, instead of acknowledging that there are fundamental differences between the two sexes.

I am not a super masculine guy or something, but especially when I started to dance tango I began to appreciate gender roles more. Gender roles are often accompanied by a plaintive tone, as if they are purely something reactionary and negative, as if they are something that is all but a cliché. I pride myself in my identity as a man and I am not interested in many things women are typically interested in. I like women that are commonsensical, modern and independent, but I like women who are real women and not afraid to admit that. They are not old-fashioned or oppressed, but proud of what they are. And I am sorry to say that this attitude is much more common in countries like Argentina and Spain than let's say Sweden or the UK.

 

[robwerwe]

I absolutely agree with this. I tend to find real latinas (although the high drama often gets a bit too much there) and Argentine/southern European girls much more feminine in a positive way than northern European/American girls.

Although I am getting quite tired of meeting girls who want you to take over the role of their daddy for providing for them. I find girls in the UK to have a bit more pride in them selves.