Fidel Castro Dead At 90 Years Of Age.

[EJLarson]

I think you made a few assumptions too far, and your sarcasm is a bit pathetic. Nowhere did Irelander suggest any support for Castro in his post. When Kissinger dies there'll no doubt me a thread on that, and I hope you express the same kind of sentiments about him that you did about Castro. Or should I assume that you approved of the illegal bombing of Laos and Camboida, and the near destruction of Vietnam? And assume that you approve of the support he gave to various dictatorships in Latin America? I am no supporter of Castro, I've been to Cuba and saw a beautiful island but a total lack of freedom. I've also seen the damage done by Kissinger and the USA to Cambodia and Vietnam. Maybe I'm making an assumption but I don't think Irelander meant every single American when he posted his comment.

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]You Australians ... your hypocrisy is amazing: 'racism' 'genocide' etc. are words that only ever roll off your tongues in relation to others..[/background]
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Such words would never occur to you in relation to your own aborigines, who you enslaved, separated families, segregated, and killed.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]So, Steve, do you approve of these outrages? You must, because it clearly says "You Australians" and - there you are. (And I'm sure you saw what I did there.)[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]"[/background]I don't think Irelander meant every single American when he posted his comment."

Why? Don't you take him at his word? Maybe you know him and know he often resorts to hyperbole? Let's take a look again:

"[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]You Americans ... your hypocrisy is amazing: 'tyrant, 'thugs' etc. are words that only ever roll off your tongues in relation an opponent of US domination of the hemisphere.[/background]
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Such words would never occur to you in relation to Henry Kissinger, or any of the Pinochets, Videlas, García Mezas, Somozas etc. who did the dirty work, overthrowing democracy and instilling terror in the name of empire."[/background]

I don't see that he makes any exceptions here. But if he wants to clarify, fine. Yes, I will use sarcasm for someone with the arrogance to think he knows what I think and what I would do - without knowing me. He deserves ridicule if he declares 300 million people he doesn't know to be morally bankrupt. Does he want to know what I think about Kissinger, Pinochet, Videla, et al? Well, goddamit - ask me what I think!

You did ask, and in the proper context I'd be glad to tell you - not now because I know your questions were rhetoric in this thread. You and I don't agree politically, but I'm always aware of your principles and, while you get snippy once in a while, it's not your habit to use ad hominem arguments.

It's called dialogue. It's the opposite of arrogant moralizing with people you don't know.

 

[Noesdeayer]

EJLarson:
Please Ed don't be so hard on StevePalermo.I'm not sure he's even an Australian citizen.He told me that he's only been there for 4 years.
He says the White Australia Immigration Policy in effect as late as 1975 is ancient history there.In the early part of the 20th century non-white wannabe immigrants to Australia had to write a paragraph read to them in English.If they couldn't write it they were out.
In the last 41 years they have become super multicultural Like London already. WOW!
Hypocrisy? What's that? The Aussies don't know from that already.

 

[EJLarson]

EJLarson:
Please Ed don't be so hard on StevePalermo.I'm not sure he's even an Australian citizen.He told me that he's only been there for 4 years.
He says the White Australia Immigration Policy in effect as late as 1975 is ancient history there.In the early part of the 20th century non-white wannabe immigrants to Australia had to write a paragraph read to them in English.If they couldn't write it they were out.
In the last 41 years they have become super multicultural Like London already. WOW!
Hypocrisy? What's that? The Aussies don't know from that already.

Yeah, I was just making a point about his defense of what I'd consider the insufferable arrogance of the OP. Hope you noted it was all tongue-in-cheek, paralleling the not-funny treatment of Aborigines with the not-funny murderous Cuban regime to underscore the obvious fact that it's always wrong to assume opinions and beliefs of those you don't know.

And I would never accuse anyone of hypocrisy - unless I knew them well.

 

[wineguy999]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]You Australians ... your hypocrisy is amazing: 'racism' 'genocide' etc. are words that only ever roll off your tongues in relation to others..[/background]
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Such words would never occur to you in relation to your own aborigines, who you enslaved, separated families, segregated, and killed.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]So, Steve, do you approve of these outrages? You must, because it clearly says "You Australians" and - there you are. (And I'm sure you saw what I did there.)[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]"[/background]I don't think Irelander meant every single American when he posted his comment."

Why? Don't you take him at his word? Maybe you know him and know he often resorts to hyperbole? Let's take a look again:

"[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]You Americans ... your hypocrisy is amazing: 'tyrant, 'thugs' etc. are words that only ever roll off your tongues in relation an opponent of US domination of the hemisphere.[/background]
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Such words would never occur to you in relation to Henry Kissinger, or any of the Pinochets, Videlas, García Mezas, Somozas etc. who did the dirty work, overthrowing democracy and instilling terror in the name of empire."[/background]

I don't see that he makes any exceptions here. But if he wants to clarify, fine. Yes, I will use sarcasm for someone with the arrogance to think he knows what I think and what I would do - without knowing me. He deserves ridicule if he declares 300 million people he doesn't know to be morally bankrupt. Does he want to know what I think about Kissinger, Pinochet, Videla, et al? Well, goddamit - ask me what I think!

You did ask, and in the proper context I'd be glad to tell you - not now because I know your questions were rhetoric in this thread. You and I don't agree politically, but I'm always aware of your principles and, while you get snippy once in a while, it's not your habit to use ad hominem arguments.

It's called dialogue. It's the opposite of arrogant moralizing with people you don't know.

Bravo! I cannot express enough how difficult it was to travel as a Texan throughout the Bush Administration. So often I had to defend myself as a human being because of that family of Connecticut carpetbaggers having settled in Texas.

Irelander was happy to group all Americans into one bag. By his logic, all Germans are Nazis, Mexicans are lazy, and all Irishmen love to kowtow to the queen!

 

[nikad]

nikad.
You have always impressed me as an intelligent person.I cannot believe that you really think that the majority of Cubans supported Fidel after 1980 or so.
When I was in Cuba in 2005 in Santa Clara and La Habana my Cuban friends would invite me to their homes. In hushed tones and gathered tightly around a table we would discuss in guarded secrecy their personal situations.One did not publicly show dissent if they didn´t want to be reported to the block guardians of the revolution--something like the Peronista manzaneras¨¨---.And when their was rationing during the Special Periods even less.
Fidel was a megalomaniac with a messianic streak.¨Äqui hay uha cosa que no se toca y es La Revolucion and if you did you were indeed f---ked .
if the Cuban elite which inclded many Spaniards had ceeded even a bit of their wealth and privilege the revolution probably wold not have been necessary.But they would not so they got Fidelismo.I knew many of the Spanish who fled Cuba when I lived in Madrid in 1965--66.Castro was no friend of theirs either.

There is no Revolucion anywhere without the people's support. There is not a single case in history where people lived indefinitely oppressed waiting for the oppressor to die. I think there are deeper reasons that we obviously don't know or get.. This doesn't mean that everybody loved it or that they lived like kings. The international community could not care less for Cuba, they had no oil or anything of interest, nobody tried to set them free as apposed to other oppressed such as middle easterners.

 

[nikad]

Yes the peoples of N Korea if given a choice between their ruling dynasty or open media, food, property ownership, freedom to travel etc would of course freely choose their current dictator... B)

So you think they will wait until he dies? Or are they waiting for UN to free them? Did you know that HItler was elected in Germany? I just think you should not underestimate people and their power or will.

 

[nikad]

Shame on the US and EU international foreign policies that blocked Cuba as they sold their soul to China. You can love Castro or despise him... did he had a huge pair of b***s running the Revolucion and the island few miles away from the US or he was a lame dictator ignored by the world that was too busy fighting wars for oil, etc in the middle east and trading with " democratic " China?

 

[steveinbsas]

Did you know that HItler was elected in Germany? I just think you should not underestimate people and their power or will.

Hitler was never elected to political office. He was appointed chancellor in a coalition government by Field Marshal von Hindenberg, the German president.

Hitler assumed office on January 30th 1933, which was also my mother's 18th birthday and Franklin Delano Roosevelt's 51st.

Looking back, it's obvious that the rest of the world greatly underestimated the power of the German people and their "will to duty."

PS: 1933 was also FDR's first year in office as President of the United States and I believe he was inaugurated in March.

After the USA became involve in World War Two, Hitler would soon learn that he had greatly underestimated the power and will of the people of the United States, so your point, Nikad, is absolutely spot on.

 

[Noesdeayer]

Nikad¨ La revolucion cubana in 1959 was a necessary step that with the passage of time went horribly wrong.
No US gov't official has ever said at any time that China was ¨democratic.
One of the best ways to draw countries into dialogue is thru free trade.
Castro didn't have a huge set of b---¨s.He is simply a megalomaniac like a milder form of Hitler
Che Guevara was truly crazy. When he was interviewed by the Manchester Guardian during the missle crisis in the early 1960s and asked what he would do with the missles, if the Yanquis attacked or invaded Cuba again like in the Bay of Pigs fiasco,Che replied that he would fire them at the US.
The Guardian reporter then replied,¨¨That is when I knew he was bonkers¨.
Lame dictator nothing he had the full support of the Soviet Union.

 

[nikad]

Hitler was never elected to political office. He was appointed chancellor in a coalition government by Field Marshal von Hindenberg, the German president.

Hitler assumed office on January 30th 1933, which was also my mother's 18th birthday and Franklin Delano Roosevelt's 51st.

Looking back, it's obvious that the rest of the world greatly underestimated the power of the German people and their "will to duty."

PS: 1933 was also FDR's first year in office as President of the United States and I believe he was inaugurated in March.

After the USA became involve in World War Two, Hitler would soon learn that he had greatly underestimated the power and will of the people of the United States, so your point, Nikad, is absolutely spot on.

You are right Steve, he was legitimated by president Hindenburg and German people after.