For Republicans, The Acceptable Approach To "free Stuff"

[ajoknoblauch]

its not that youre conservative or liberal. There are lots of greys in the middle.
The same with left and right (although thats useful to know where people are).

Peronism has a lot of authoritarian elements. And demagogic. Peron was an admirer of Mussolini. What Peron did here was give all the power to the poor. It was a revolution. He propeled the sindicates, gave them a long list of rights to the workers. And from where did he take that advantages? its not like he did that and nobody lost, you know? of course those rights were conquered, taken away from someone who did not want to pay vacations to its workers!

and as I said peronismo had and has a lot of authoritarian elements, but Peron was not a dictator, since every time he acceded to power was within democratical elections, and in fact his detractors were the ones who violated the constitution, prohibiting for 20 years, sending him to exile, or overthrowing his democratical government. Every single coup of dictatorship after his government in this country was anti peronista and had an economic plan of deindustrialization, give the power to the oligarchy, prosecute the youth because of the long hair or miniskirt, or beer (a synonim of communism)....if thats not conservative you tell me.

Beer is a symbol of communism?

 

[Matiasba]

Beer is a symbol of communism?

yes, as you read. In the last dictatorship beard was a synonim of communism. And it remains till today, it is not well seen in the upper classes to have beer. And thats very common in the progresist field (typical university proffesor)... its just different calss signals, very present in argentine society..

In the last dictatorship, if you had long hair and/or beer, you were suspicious.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

yes, as you read. In the last dictatorship beard was a synonim of communism. And it remains till today, it is not well seen in the upper classes to have beer. And thats very common in the progresist field (typical university proffesor)... its just different calss signals, very present in argentine society..

In the last dictatorship, if you had long hair and/or beer, you were suspicious.

Since I prefer wine, does that make me an oligarch?

 

[Matiasba]

Since I prefer wine, does that make me an oligarch?

Im sorry my mistake.

 

[EdRooney]

I remember the same thing under the Greek dictatorship. Long side burns and short skirts were illegal. Mark Twain and Herman Hesse were banned. Back in those days, it was the socialists (PASOK) that were just like the left-wing Peronists here, fighting a culture war against the Evil Conservatives.

But both parties that were once illegal are now in power, and both of them ended up implementing the same type of backwards economic policies they once condemned, but with a sheen of hipness and professing "cultural inclusiveness". So essentially if you're poor in either country, you can either get screwed by a dictatorship's repressive economic policies, or by a too-hip-for-school ex-hippy implementing the same crap.

Sorry, I don't buy the guff about Peronism "giving all the power to the poor".

 

[French jurist]

Do you happen to know which Republican "wingnut" recently proclaimed, 'Africans Must Have Their Human Fertility 'Managed' and why?

Yes, but there's the context also, he was talking about the fact that around 2050, there will be more Africans than Chinese or Indians, and that in 2100, there will be more Africans than Chinese + Indians combined (fertility can be reduced by Education too!).
Seems this part of the speech is listed mainly by very proactive sites (in favour of certain political ideas).

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Yes, but there's the context also, he was talking about the fact that around 2050, there will be more Africans than Chinese or Indians, and that in 2100, there will be more Africans than Chinese + Indians combined (fertility can be reduced by Education too!).
Seems this part of the speech is listed mainly by very proactive sites (in favour of certain political ideas).

Yes, but there's the context also, he was talking about the fact that around 2050, there will be more Africans than Chinese or Indians, and that in 2100, there will be more Africans than Chinese + Indians combined (fertility can be reduced by Education too!).
Seems this part of the speech is listed mainly by very proactive sites (in favour of certain political ideas).

To the wingnuts, context is just another obstacle to their obstructionism.

In fairness, we all need to have our fertility managed.

 

[Matiasba]

Sorry, I don't buy the guff about Peronism "giving all the power to the poor".

Please, do a litte research on the web by yourself.


Facts:

* a long list of totally new rights conquered under peronism. I put only two, but there were more (like the vote for the women, for instance).
* full employment level.
* strong internal demand.
* nationalisation of important companies such as trains.
* very strong industrialization, heavy industry to important companies like fabricaciones militares or ypf
* exponential growth of sindicates. Remember we re talking of the belle epocque of capitalism where you have keynesianism everywhere, full employment level, welfare state, etc. This, of course, explains the new rights for the excluded.
* political power to the majorities (as it must be).


Google Peron and IAPI, and like that you have tons of measures, it was the best gini in Argentine existance, the better redistribution of wealth of history. Just look at public buildings in BsAs (hospitals, universities, etc) they were ALL built in that time.

The same as this government, do you think subsidios are an accident? luz, gas, agua, transport and other stuff too, that has a political purpose.I seriously doubt the next government will mantain these subsidios, they are talking of a 700% of rise.

 

[EdRooney]

Mati,

Is there any reason why you're little history lesson there skips from 1955 to 2003? Ah yes because that's when the Peronistas that were in office were doing the exact opposite. Rodrigo, Cavallo, Menem, Duhalde... the lot of them pushing for austerity, pay cuts, cost of living decreases, Rodrigazos, and more austerity. If you're going to consider the history of Peronism, you have to talk about all of them, not just the ones you like.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Mati,

Is there any reason why you're little history lesson there skips from 1955 to 2003? Ah yes because that's when the Peronistas that were in office were doing the exact opposite. Rodrigo, Cavallo, Menem, Duhalde... the lot of them pushing for austerity, pay cuts, cost of living decreases, Rodrigazos, and more austerity. If you're going to consider the history of Peronism, you have to talk about all of them, not just the ones you like.

Peronism's guiding principle continues to be opportunism. In that, they are consistent.