Ignorance or bliss?

[SaraSara]

Didn't know there was anyone who still believed INDEC's figures. They have been totally discredited for well over a year, and now rate as fiction.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

In regards to Perry's point regarding Chile versus Argentina. Even in his quote the numbers comparing Chile and Argentina are questioned due to the source which is Indec.

Actual GDP per capita growth from 1969 to now is as follows:

Argentina 10.55% almost stagnant and well below world averages.
Chile 108.31% strong growth and about double world average.

You are confused. Perry was talking about the wealth people has, not the wealth the country produces. The big difference between Argentina and Chile is that we has a better distribution of wealth, there are very rich people and poor. We still have middle class.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Didn't know there was anyone who still believed INDEC's figures. They have been totally discredited for well over a year, and now rate as fiction.

Well, if you believe in thouse credit risk agencies that asserts that the US is zero risk, then we are even.

 

[darmanad]

This is an English language site designed for expats. I welcome the participation of locals. They often add insight. Baja-cero's (BC) post #33 is an example of an extremely educational post. So is jazrgz's #46.
However, locals ultimately have to be held responible for expressing themselves clearly and for comprehending all other posts accurately.

To the extent this thread got off on a tangent about bonds, it was because in my #75 I challenged BC's assertion that AR was saving money by seriously underreporting inflation via INDEC. The ensuing back and forth was perhaps unnecessarily drawn out for 2 reasons: (1) BC's failure to immediatley specify he was referring only to interest payments tied to INDEC on the 2005 replacement bonds and (2) my inability to grasp he could not possibly be referring to anything else. The subject has been sufficiently aired and I hope we agree that any money AR is saving on the 2005 bond payments is offset by the need to pay higher interest on future borrowing because of a lack of credibility.

To the extent the dialogue has progressed from there I have a couple of observations. (1) Locals tend to defend their country more than expats. (2) Among locals there is a wide difference of opinion about the socioeconomic conditions in AR. Neither is a surprise, but locals should not take offense when they are asked to explain their assertions. They may have expressed good insights poorly or they may uttered have half-cocked ideas that should be challenged regardless of sentence structure, grammar, etc.
Nothing more enforces the reputation of arrogance on the part of Portenos than being abusive to others who question their ideas and conclusions. Especially when those ideas and conclusions are jingoistic.

 

[gouchobob]

You are confused. Perry was talking about the wealth people has, not the wealth the country produces. The big difference between Argentina and Chile is that we has a better distribution of wealth, there are very rich people and poor. We still have middle class.

Wrong again, the poverty rate(I don't mean Indec fiction) in Argentina is higher than Chile. The poverty rate in Argentina has increased substantially over the last 50 years or so. Argentina is continuing its longterm downward economic death spiral.

 

[SaraSara]

Well, if you believe in thouse credit risk agencies that asserts that the US is zero risk, then we are even.

Please, Bajocero, I make every effort to take your posts seriously, but this last one sounds like something straight out of kindergarden school.

Why not just use the "sticking tongue out" smilie in the side panel? I mean this one:
...

 

[jp]

Poverty rate as defined by whom? Are you suggesting that people were better fed, educated, housed and medicated 50 years ago?

Genuinely curious to see what stats you have to support your claim.

 

[gouchobob]

Poverty rate as defined by whom? Are you suggesting that people were better fed, educated, housed and medicated 50 years ago?

Genuinely curious to see what stats you have to support your claim.

Glad to oblige, yes there were fewer people living in poverty in Argentina fifty years ago than today. This is the result of Argentina's economic decline over that period which I believe is continuing today even though the current economy is doing well(not sustainable in my opinion).

Here is an excerpt from a World Bank report.

The last several decades revealed another puzzle.
Inequality has increased persistently, resulting in rising
levels of poverty in the face of stagnant, albeit widely
fluctuating, average per capita output. Per capita GDP in
2004 was at about the same level as in 1974. Nevertheless,
poverty was much higher in 2004, reflecting an
increasingly unequal distribution of income. Remarkably,
the rise in inequality, and poverty, was observed in
periods of both growth and recession (See Figure 2).
Moreover, although Latin America has not been very
successful in reducing poverty and inequality, the recent
record of most countries in the region was better than
that of Argentina.

You can read the entire report in the link below.

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTENBREVE/Newsletters/20843643/82-NOV05-AR_Growth.pdf

 

[perry]

In regards to Perry's point regarding Chile versus Argentina. Even in his quote the numbers comparing Chile and Argentina are questioned due to the source which is Indec.

Actual GDP per capita growth from 1969 to now is as follows:

Argentina 10.55% almost stagnant and well below world averages.
Chile 108.31% strong growth and about double world average.

Have you no shame ? The figures quoted on Argentinas growth did not come from Indec but actually the IMF who many here know are not going to normally post anything in our Favour . Please read below GOUCHO and see that the date comes from the IMF:.........

I suggest that you read the link in its entirety.

http://en.mercopress.com/2010/05/05/...ta-ppp-in-2009

Argentina became the richest country in Latin America in 2009 as measured by GDP per capita purchasing power parity, PPP, according to a Latin Business Chronicle analysis based of new data from the International Monetary Fund.

 

[gouchobob]

Have you no shame ? The figures quoted on Argentinas growth did not come from Indec but actually the IMF who many here know are not going to normally post anything in our Favour . Please read below GOUCHO and see that the date comes from the IMF:.........

Argentina became the richest country in Latin America in 2009 as measured by GDP per capita purchasing power parity, PPP, according to a Latin Business Chronicle analysis based of new data from the International Monetary Fund.

The IMF uses the Indec stats but footnotes them as being questionable. This is the only country in the world that the IMF footnotes.