"Insecurity is just a perception"

Here's a little information about villas:

I employ someone who was born and grew up in San Isidro's infamous Villa La Caba, one of the worst in BA. She was able to move away, but her mother and sister still live there. Luckily, near the outer edge and not in the center, where the criminals are. They never venture more than fifty meters away from the street, as the passages become more and more dangerous as they go deeper into the villa.

The police won't enter the villa unless in pursuit of a specific criminal sought after for some high profile crime, such as a policeman's murder, a street shootout, or a kidnapping.

In short, they go in only when forced by public outrage. Otherwise, they wisely stay outside. They are not paid enough to risk their lives pursuing petty thieves. A rookie policeman makes as much as an apprentice bricklayer, and out of his miserable salary must pay for his uniform, is gun, and his cell-phone.

Villas don't pay for electricity. The power companies say meters placed inside villas were regularly stolen or vandalized, and refuse to put them back in. Instead, they put a meter at the entrance, and neighbors run their own connections from there. The cost of the power bill is split among regular consumers, and the charge in their bills is disguised as something akin to "Decreto No. 122/427-C", and listed among a whole slew of assorted fees and taxes like IVA, etc. This "Decreto" is about 20% of my power bill total. I discovered this only because I got curious about all those additional charges, phoned the power company bill in hand, and got an explanation of each individual item.

I believe about 70% of villeros are honest, hard working people who have nowhere else to live, and are the first victims of the criminals who constitute the remaining 30%. My cousin is a social worker and regularly goes into the villas to organize after-school activities for children and assorted courses for their mothers. She's escorted from the bus stop to the schoolrom by a group of mothers, and then escorted out again. These mothers know exactly which alleys to avoid to get her safely in and out of the villa.

Villeros pay no taxes, and have no running water or sewage lines. A few months ago another cousin, an architect who works for the BA government, disguised himself as a gas inspector to survey Villa 31 building by building. Halfway through the survey the villeros discovered who he was, but instead of kicking him out they helped him do the survey. There are five story buildings in that villa, built against code and highly dangerous, and the city is trying to do something to improve safety.

There was an interesting a piece in La Nacion about this survey - I'll try to find the link.
 
SaraSara said:
Villas don't pay for electricity.
Big deal (they don't have 5 ACs running together). The truly shocking thing is that I am paying el tarifo con subsidio nacional. What can I do about it ? I'm renting, and it was already like this.

SaraSara said:
Villeros pay no taxes,
They pay the IVA which is a tax (in France the proportion IVA(TVA)/Direct taxes is about 2/3 vs 1/3, and here ?).
El minimo imponible here is around 36.000$ ?

SaraSara said:
and have no running water or sewage lines.
Right.

SaraSara said:
Halfway through the survey the villeros discovered who he was, but instead of kicking him out they helped him do the survey.
Of course right, they are no animals as you mention it !
 
Sorry, I should have said the villas pay no PROPERTY taxes. Nothing and no one is exempt from the IVA.

Does anyone have any knowledge of life in the villas? I mean, through someone you know personally who lives, has lived, or works in one of them?

It would be interesting to pool what everyone knows from personal contacts - just simple anecdotal information, stripped of prejudices, individual opinions or political agendas.

As for the villa's electric usage, take a slow drive along the Arturo Illia highway, right past Villa 31, and you'll see the split AC units sticking out of many buildings. Maybe they don't have FIVE units per family, but many homes have one.

They also have other electric appliances - last month in TV there was a Paraguayan woman being interviewed about power peaks in the villa. She complained that they had ruined her flat screen TV, her stereo, and her son's playstation, and was concerned about her new DVD player.
 
Maybe I am crazy but, where do you expect people to live? And can you blame them for wanting electricity even if they can't pay? I mean many of these people can't afford property taxes or rent. Does that mean they shouldn't sleep somewhere? There seems to be a lack of adequate shelters and places for people to get some aid.

I understand that it is frustrating when crime spills out of villas or when you see someone enjoying things you do not have when they may not have obtained those things in an honest way. ( personally I don't have a big flat screen TV). However, I think we have to understand the desperation of some of these situations. People deserve basic things. I wish there were more services available to people from the villas.
 
I thin the thing I find so fascinating (at the risk of sounding horribly insensitive) is having a villa right next to a hugely expensive area. It just doesn't compute to me. It's like picturing a slum being built in Central Park right next to the Met.

I don't actually know what the answer is. Ideally government services (not that I agree with someone's assertion earlier that it is the government's RESPONSIBILITY to provide a house for everyone that is here:eek:). But some type of social welfare network and services to assist people in getting on their feet.

I am hardly saying that I think most villa residents are living the life of luxury. In fact, I've watched some horribly depressing news clips these past few days - children playing in highly contaminated water, streets filled with refuse, exposed wires and dangerous areas. I'm not saying they're cheating the system and living a life of luxury.

But at what point is it too much? Villa 31 has bars. Pizza Places. Kioskos. Addresses. How many people live there? At what point do you say it has to be integrated into the rest of the city?
 
I agree. In the U.S these areas are much more off the beaten path usually. It brings different issues when slums are as visible as they are in Argentina. On one side I do commend the people living in villas for organizing enough to have functioning shops and restaurants and such. Just because they are poor doesn't mean they can't have an economy that functions. In fact this is quite enterprising and I bet many people from these areas would be stellar employees at companies.
If only there was something that could empower these businesses to continue and grow in a more legitimate way. There is no easy solution. I just wanted to stick up little for these people. It is easy to blame insecurity solely on the poor when things get tough and the conversation seemed to be veering in that direction. It is so much more complicated.
 
That's correct about them stealing the electricity. I don't have much experience in this other than the case of the building my friend bought. But they had tapped in illegally to get electricity and I think they were stealing some from their neighbors as well.

There was no running water. It was really disgusting as I went in after to see it and saw buckets in certain areas. And it was amazing how they rigged up wooden beams to make another floor. In this old building in San Telmo it had really high ceilings and to make more room, they added in wooden beams into the wall to make another floor.

Again, I don't think there is an easy answer as far as them occupying public land but I doubt anyone on this forum would like it if they had a property they legally owned occupied by these people and they wouldn't leave. It wouldn't be fun no matter how some are portraying the plight of these people...
 
citygirl said:
I don't actually know what the answer is. Ideally government services (not that I agree with someone's assertion earlier that it is the government's RESPONSIBILITY to provide a house for everyone that is here:eek:). But some type of social welfare network and services to assist people in getting on their feet.

I think a stronger economy and the chance for upward mobility would be one of the most effective solutions... the villa situation reminds me a bit of the Sixth Ward of Manhattan in the 1800s. Poor immigrants and the working class lived in the most unimaginable squalor, in conditions far worse than in the villas, and yet within a few generations, managed to break the cycle of poverty. First, tenement reform was passed and the most dangerous buildings were razed, which greatly improved sanitation. Child labor laws forced kids into school, and benevolent associations provided some degree of medical care and assistance programs. But it was the booming economy that allowed the poor to ever get on their feet... there were SO many job opportunities then, no matter how poor or illiterate you were. The labor was back-breaking and exploitative, but the first generation worked their asses off (as factory hands, dressmakers, shopkeepers) to stay afloat, and if they were lucky, their kids made it through high school, maybe even college, and were able to find stable work as police officers, teachers, secretaries, etc.

So. BA provides free university educations, which is wonderful, but where are the jobs that could help the villeros get and stay on their feet in the first place? Unemployment is rampant in Argentina, at all socioeconomic levels. With the current cost of living in BA, I can't imagine surviving even on a middle-class salary, much less some minimum-wage, unskilled labor job... but from what I see around town, even those types of jobs are scarce. So... I don't really know the answer, either :(
 
dennisr said:
Like the bard said: "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."
When Dick, the butcher, said these words it was because he and his cronies were plotting a violent overthrow of government. The desire by the hooligans to do away with the lawyers is most often interpreted to be a compliment to the legal profession. (Shakespeare studied the law)
 
jayjane said:
Maybe I am crazy but, where do you expect people to live? And can you blame them for wanting electricity even if they can't pay? I mean many of these people can't afford property taxes or rent. Does that mean they shouldn't sleep somewhere? There seems to be a lack of adequate shelters and places for people to get some aid.

I understand that it is frustrating when crime spills out of villas or when you see someone enjoying things you do not have when they may not have obtained those things in an honest way. ( personally I don't have a big flat screen TV). However, I think we have to understand the desperation of some of these situations. People deserve basic things. I wish there were more services available to people from the villas.

It is politically incorrect :eek: to say this, but keep in mind that half the people in the villas are not Argentines.

They are Bolivians, Peruvians, and Paraguayans who came by their own initiative. The country is under no obligation to provide them with affordable housing, like some poster wrote.

Argentine social services - hospitals, clinics, schools, etc. - are pitifully underfunded, and so overloaded that they are unable to serve even the locals. They can't be expected to take care of the flood of immigrants from neighboring countries who get here and find themselves with no job, and without the skills to get one.
 
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