Is President Kirchner Improving The Lives Of Argentinos?

Is President Cristina Kirchner Improving the Lives of Argentinos?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 13.9%
  • No

    Votes: 68 86.1%

  • Total voters
    79
It is not an external factor, it is an internal. Or at least a relationship of Arg with the IMF. Of course the way they implemented that policies here was terrible, alla Argentina, but what Im criticizing are the policies itselves. As every free market policy, it concentrated the capital in less hands, and excluded a lot of people, ruined lot of pymes, medium-large argentines companies sold to americans, and the consequences could not have been other than unemployment, poverty, and a huge collapse of it all.

About Robert Cox, although I dont agree with his political opinions, I, and the leftists this country have, respect him a lot because of the posture he had in (against) the dictatorship. He was almost the only non-leftist journalist that did something (since Clarin & Nacion were allies to the dictatorship).

Look Matias your stance on the IMF is pretty clear but if your going to be objective in any form you would have to acknowledge the significant role of corruption and poor management (including high public deficits caused by surprise surprise, high public sector wages amongst other things) played in the 2001 crisis. There was also many external factors. The IMF have already acknowledged a lot of its failings anyway (ie the fixed exchange rate). But, that doesnt mean that the free market theory doesnt work and wouldnt work (if applied properly) in Argentina.

Just like Bajo Cero you dont want to answer the question: Why is it that a free market is working so beautifully across the Andes in Chile?
 
Can someone explain to me what was going on El Borda. I understand that planned improvements were implemented as agreed by the city govt. Police moved those protestors and allowed the work to proceed. I cannot understand how a govt can side with protestors against the police , the police whose job it is to facilitate the rule of law. Surely a core principle of democracy.

Is it enshrined in some local law here that a small group of protestors have the right to over rule democratically taken decisions?

Imagine the claims of 'golpistas!' If the 18a crowd obstructed the implementation of democratically agreed policy. Protest, yes...attack the police and stop public works! No? Cant the just march or was there not enough?

What am I missing?
 
Look Matias your stance on the IMF is pretty clear but if your going to be objective in any form you would have to acknowledge the significant role of corruption and poor management (including high public deficits caused by surprise surprise, high public sector wages amongst other things) played in the 2001 crisis. There was also many external factors. The IMF have already acknowledged a lot of its failings anyway (ie the fixed exchange rate). But, that doesnt mean that the free market theory doesnt work and wouldnt work (if applied properly) in Argentina.

Just like Bajo Cero you dont want to answer the question: Why is it that a free market is working so beautifully across the Andes in Chile?


You re right. I said it a lot of times here and in other threads before, that unlike the argentinean, the chilean dictatorship with its neoliberalism project and the chicago boys recepies did work out and is a successful experience. Although they started with a coup d etat to a democratically elected government that not by chance had the total opposite ideas. That made it with the 100% support of the US (who by the way killed former Allende ministers like Prats or Letelier -google Michael Townley).
Chile is indeed a very success experience.

We can say that Brazil also was a good experience. The 1964 coup d etat (curious, another country that had these ideas implemented anti democratically... and if we dig a little deeper we found that the tarán 100%!! of Latin American countries had this people with these new ideas coming outside the law to implement them... just curious) of Brazil had the same purpose that had the 1966 in Argentina: create a solid, consistently bourgeoisie that could lead economically the country. Brazil was in this aspect even better since they had an industrial bourgeoisie, that mean that from 1964 Brazil started unstoppable industrialization (unlike Chile or Argentina).

In Argentina as I said before these ideas came with the 1966 dictatorship, and it didnt work, in fact, those militars lost the control of the country and had to allow the return of Peron. But the 1976 bloody dictatorship, made a second try, they did anything the US said, and allow the bigger enterprizes of this country to take debt in dollars to finally traspassed it to the State. There was a liberated interest rate, an indiscriminate commercial opening, that destroyed the local industry, there was a crisis provocated by the poor management of the exchange rate with the "tablita cambiaria" with a posterior devaluation: the day before the devaluation the minister of Economy said: "el que apuesta al dolar pierde"... They did everything wrong.

So basically there were two tries to implement these free market ideas in Argentina: one under a bloody dictatorship, which consequences were still the hyperinflation of 1989 -since was provocated from the debt, and the other experience was menemismo, a totally fake stability that private sectors and IMF demanded to make bussiness with peoples money, like privatizations, AFJPs, etc, which ended as we all know.


I dont know if it is a cultural matter that made Chile a good experience and Argentina a failure. Chile also has issues, like a huge inequality (compared to Argentina or Uruguay). The not free education law, for instance, is from the dictatorship, and there are lots of chileans that have to come here to live and study. Every time more and more. So, it was successful, but Chile is not so far better than this country is. At least from social indicators. They havent got industry like once we had. They have not diversificated their exports, they still have a strong dependency on the copper, more than we have it with the soy.

The less corruption is something that explains (a part of) the success of an economic model.


The three more developed countries from a social point of view of this continent are Chile, Argentina and Uruguay, in that order, by a little difference. Then it comes Cuba in the 4th place, with a little more difference. Argentina and Uruguay have always had almost the same socio-economic model, and the same protectionist policies. Chile is different, it has an open economy, its another model.

I would say the three of them are a (relative) success.
 
Shame on all of you who complain about Mr. Robert Fox. Whatever his opinions , or those of who you read , or believe , he is a respected journalist. Never base your opinion of information on one source. Read them all , be informed , and make an intelligent decision based on your ability to understand and comment intelligently on said facts. Only if you are able to be honest and refuse to hide behind your rose collared sunglasses. Or look at yourself in the mirror , and say my government does not lie. Because if you believe that , you are lying to yourself.

Know what you are talking about before throwing stones.
Fair point as far as your general message is concerned, but nobody here is complaining about Robert Cox.
 
Well, repsol didn t invest in looking for new oil sources. That's why today we have an energy deficit and we have to import a lot of it.
Stupid us to be happy that now there is a policy of investing in looking for new sources of oil.
 
Trennod, i reply you.
1) they keep the copper industry as a state company (the biggest income in chile for decades);
2) low infraestructure cost ( the have one road that conescts the whole country)
3) they didn t face 50 years of diplomatic/economy sanctions;
4) the military killed people and they faced the fact instead of hidding it. It allowed the chilean society to go on.
5) they are ally with the US and the UK, so the have markets for its products.
Enough?
 
I didn t find any country that followed the imf recipy and finished well, not even a power like Russia.
 
6) chile, venezuela and brazil used the cheap petro- dollars of the 70' to develope industry while the videla's project destryed the industry and used those dollars to have people happy (they put a fake low price) and they create a debt of 90 billions with nothing left producing whealth to pay for it.
 
Well, repsol didn t invest in looking for new oil sources. That's why today we have an energy deficit and we have to import a lot of it.
Stupid us to be happy that now there is a policy of investing in looking for new sources of oil.
Sir, Argentina does not have a crude oil production problem. Argentina has a refining issue: 40% increase in vehicles on the road and not one new refinery constructed to meet demand. Argentina imports REFINED products, not crude. Furthermore, 150 days of wildcat strikes had nothing to do with with Repsol not meeting its targets???
When will people like yourself quit blaming every damn foreign company for problems the Argentine Government created.
 
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