Is President Kirchner Improving The Lives Of Argentinos?

[Matiasba]

The aim is to maintain or very slightly improve the lives of the 'proles', keep them where they are, induce more into their number and thus create an underclass that can be bent and shaped at will.
This is the medium to long term goal and the middle class is merely an irritating obstacle that has no place in the grand plan.

I dont agree with this. The main objective is to re-create the Argentine society of the XXth century. A country whose middle class was more than the 80% of its popultaion and with a very strong social mobility, with free health and education, with almost no poverty, with a well developed working class. A huge middle class country. Dont forget this country was raised by immigrants, so the bigger local fortunes were made in less than three generations. For instance, Macri, his grandfather came to this country with NOTHING, and he became a millionaire because of the opened and permeable social structure and the great capacity of mobility this country had.

This social mobility is the landmark of peronism. Again, Im not a peronist for sure but I must recognise it is the only sustainable socio-econommic model this country had. It was them or the militaries. Not by chance they were prohibited like for 20 years (think about it: the alternative plan to Peronism is to put an antidemocratic & anticonstitutional government and prohibite an entire party with its leaders... it doesnt make any sense!).

So the only project of constitucional and democratic government of society along the XXth century was the peronism. Sad, but true. Peronism also implies industrialization, means welfare state, full employment level, strong trade unions. Also, people getting envolved in politics, manifestations, participation.


Thats where this government is trying to go.

 

[Joe]

I'm not a citizen so I don't know that my opinion counts.

Yes it counts. I expect the majority of the members of this forum are not citizens. But I'm asking you if you think K is doing a good job for the citizens. I mean, it's not in her mandate to do a good job for expats. It is her job to do a good job for as many citizens as she can. How is she doing?

 

[Gringoboy]

I live here on perm res and have done for about eight years, earn in pesos and so live by defenition as a citizen.
'Free health, education and almost no poverty.....' doesn't coincide with what is actually happening.
Most of us who can afford to have to pay for health and education due to negligence and under funding.
I really don't wish to be negative, but when you see a nation so divided as this is, it's hard not to be.

 

[Matiasba]

I live here on perm res and have done for about eight years, earn in pesos and so live by defenition as a citizen.
'Free health, education and almost no poverty.....' doesn't coincide with what is actually happening.
Most of us who can afford to have to pay for health and education due to negligence and under funding.
I really don't wish to be negative, but when you see a nation so divided as this is, it's hard not to be.

May I ask if this that you say "does not coincide with reality" is from your perception or from some social indicator?
We re talking about the health, education and prosperity of the poor, people that had nothing. They are the big majority of this country. And that is a fact that went up. Every serious indicator says it. The DIH index is done by expert scientific people!!

 

[Gringoboy]

Open your eyes for crying out loud.
The health, education and prosperity of a nation is not the exclusive right of the poor.

 

[Crema Americana]

Which Argentinos? Some are better off - at least temporarily - but the country as a whole? No. There isn't any real growth... and without growth, you can't have industry or jobs or prosperity.

Shortsightedness will come back to bite.

 

[citygirl]

I don't think that anyone would disagree that the lives of the most disadvantaged have improved thanks to social programs. My question is how is this country going to fund those programs moving forward? And how will the middle class grow? Improving the lives of the impoverished is a wonderful thing and I believe it in not just from an ethical standard but from a practical standard. For every person that climbs out of poverty, he or she puts money back into the economy, crime decreases, etc. But it's about giving tools for people to succeed, not just handouts if you want a sustainable improvement in the SOL and quality of life.

I think we can all agree for example, that small businesses drive an economy and provide an avenue to climb from lower to middle class (or even higher!). This government has made it almost impossible to do business here thanks to onerous taxes, regulations, et al. So how do small businesses come into existence/grow? Literally, I know of multiple businesses that can't afford to hire more people (much less put their employees in blanco/the business in blanco) despite the market begging them for more supplies, services, etc. Wasted opportunities for the owners to grow their business, for people to find jobs, etc.

I have another friend. Worked for a company for years - was a great employee. She was laid off 3 months ago. Why? The company literally couldn't afford to pay her anymore and give her the union mandated raises. So they let her go and even having to pay her a year of severance, it was cheaper than keeping her. Two other employees were let go as well. She hasn't been able to find another job b/c companies simply don't have the funds to hire someone at her level and then deal with 20/30 percent annual increases.

 

[Ashley]

I think initially, a lot of the social programs looked promising. However, there are some serious social issues and poverty in this country that I feel is getting covered up by this government by their laptops for students and other popular,stop-gap-type programs.
I work in the social sector here (have done for years) and by my observations, things are getting worse. The family plans are being absorbed by inflation. There are women in the north that cannot access basic female health care (there are women in the provinces in the same boat). The villas are growing (you can see that just by taking the trains into retiro). When we have floods in the poorer areas of the provincias, very little gets done. Crime is on the up. There are child prostitution problems. Malnutrition. Gender violence...the list goes on. And what's worse is that it gets ignored in favour of promoting other, more popularist, social programs.
As for the growth of the middle classes...My husband and I are young professional graduates that have been working for 10 years. Our salaries are worth less and less each year. We were better off 4 years ago, despite raises. We cannot afford a car or a house or vacation this year. Fact. The idea of bringing children into this mess (and having to pay private schools, healthcare, etc, terrifies me!)
There are also an awful lot of people here doing awfully well and it is impossible to see how! Union workers, K supporters and those getting their income from abroad seem to be flourishing.

 

[sesamosinsal]

As for the growth of the middle classes...My husband and I are young professional graduates that have been working for 10 years. Our salaries are worth less and less each year. We were better off 4 years ago, despite raises. We cannot afford a car or a house or vacation this year. Fact. The idea of bringing children into this mess (and having to pay private schools, healthcare, etc, terrifies me!)
There are also an awful lot of people here doing awfully well and it is impossible to see how! Union workers, K supporters and those getting their income from abroad seem to be flourishing.

Inflation is probably the biggest problem in this country right now. It's frustrating for me, and I know it's frustrating for you all.

Nonetheless, if everyone sells pesos and buys dollars, the peso will, by that very action, become absolutely worthless.

If some "economist" says that inflation is going to be 25 percent this year, and large newspapers like La Nación and Clarín say that inflation will be 25 percent, what will happen? Everyone, from property owners, to small shops, to big corporations will raise their prices by 25 percent--regardless if such predictions are based on sound economic analysis or not.

Everyone--including myself--always asks, "Why won't she just do something about inflation?" The solution is so much easier said than done. Not only can the media be seen as influential in creating inflation and dollar hysteria, but there are the unions and businesses that always seek to make even more and more money.

Most economists say that the problem is printing money. In Argentina, money printing is a symptom of the problem, not the cause. If the government didn't force the Central Bank to print money, there wouldn't be enough in circulation pay the wage increases, price increases, etc, all of which I'd argue are driven by mass media hysteria. If they didn't print the money, there would be social chaos, and the government isn't about to let that happen.

If people start yelling that there's fire in a crowded theater, then everyone will probably run for their lives.

But what happens if there isn't a fire at all? Most of these problems are, unfortunately, self-inflicted and a part of a vicious, vicious cycle that's hard stop.

 

[Rich One]

On the subject of the Improvement of Argentinean lives....

A restaurant owner interviewed yesterday on Doing BA , a TV Program... stated ; He had been for 50 years in the gastronomic sector, and the present crisis he said is worse than 2001, because then it was shorter, This crisis he said is lasting too long. Salaries and benefits represent 39% of the operating costs? his business is down sharply. i

Some may say what Crisis?? No better indicator than the Gastronomic sector to measure the pulse of the economy. However people in the Villas don't frequent the Cafes in Calle Corrientes.