Is President Kirchner Improving The Lives Of Argentinos?

[Matiasba]

You know why the stupid politicians here need 1 millon to create a job, simple 994.000 for the corrupt pocket 6000 to pay the new employ

6000? thats too much!!!
They stole even the jobs!! see planes "trabajar" and the mafia to distribute them!!

 

[sesamosinsal]

But if it wasn't for the government propping these industries up (by blocking imports, tariffs, and giving governmental assistance) these industries would crumble.

During the K "regime" (how ridiculous), Argentina has imported much more than it ever did under previous governments.

But they have also made sure that those imports don't outnumber the exports. Balanced trade, imagine that!

The Ks support freer trade, but they do not support free trade. A brilliant idea. Someone should tell Greece, France, Spain, and Italy about it.

The only country that can get away with imports galore is the U.S., and that's because it has a dollar printer. It's pretty easy to be for free trade when you hold the exclusive rights to print the money used to pay for imports.

 

[citygirl]

You do however have to have experience and/or understanding about running a business to make statements about how pro-industry this gov't is. Because it's very much not pro-business/pro-industry.

 

[Yogur griego]

crime is increasing and getting significantly worse and the villas in all parts of the country are growing. You can see it here with how Villa 31 has grown over the last 5 years, in Tucuman in my girlfriends city (which is outside of San Miguel) there was barely ever a villa but in the last 3-4 years it has really come on. Those in San MIguel de Tucuman have grown in size as well. I just buy it that she is improving things for the poor here...

Very interesting remark. I have seen so many rapidly expanding villas in Rosario the last time when I was there. I always wonder whether there are middle-class people of European descent kind of retreating to these areas or just immigrants from poorer countries.

 

[sesamosinsal]

You do however have to have experience and/or understanding about running a business to make statements about how pro-industry this gov't is. Because it's very much not pro-business/pro-industry.

Well, allowing the industries to grow rather than importing everything--like they did in the 90s--is a good start.

The policies of Menem in the 90s devastated any "industria" that Argentina had.

 

[citygirl]

As for how the import restrictions have helped - one does understand that restrictions on import work for the best if a) one has a large enough internal population to support need and B) one has an efficient and effective industry to meet the demand of a. And that Argentina fits neither criteria.

Tell me, in all honesty, how have the import restrictions helped anyone? The consumer is left at the mercy of bad quality and high prices. The industries can't meet demand b/c they can't even get parts in that they need to make a, b, or c and thanks to the double whammy of inflation, can't afford to hire people to make things.

It is absolutely INSANE to me that it was cheaper for me to get on a plane and fly to Miami to buy things than it was to buy them here and they were much better quality. But true.

And industries AREN'T growing - that's the point. Yes, lots of "fabricas" down in Tierra del Fuego are coming online but around here - it's not the case.

 

[sesamosinsal]

As for how the import restrictions have helped - one does understand that restrictions on import work for the best if a) one has a large enough internal population to support need and B) one has an efficient and effective industry to meet the demand of a. And that Argentina fits neither criteria.

Tell me, in all honesty, how have the import restrictions helped anyone? The consumer is left at the mercy of bad quality and high prices. The industries can't meet demand b/c they can't even get parts in that they need to make a, b, or c and thanks to the double whammy of inflation, can't afford to hire people to make things.

It is absolutely INSANE to me that it was cheaper for me to get on a plane and fly to Miami to buy things than it was to buy them here. But true.

You're referring to ISI, and Argentina doesn't have a policy of actively substituting imports. As I said--and you can look at the charts on TradingEconomics.com for yourself--Argentina has imported more under the Ks than it ever did under Menem. The only difference between Menem and the Ks is that the Ks pay for those imports through exports, rather than taking on massive amounts of debt. Thus, Argentina is merely balancing its checkbook when it comes to trade.

Ask the 15 percent of people who were unemployed here in the 1990s how the free trade bonanza was beneficial for them. Many, I think, have forgotten, though. Perhaps it might be a better idea to ask the unemployed in Greece, Spain, the U.S...

 

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

This debate lifts the lid on the mindset of the populist. Nothing structural is ever attempted to attempt to create a balanced economy. Short term 'bribes' para todo, deny reality and hang on to power until the next crisis hits.

The economically less well off are feeling the bite, society isn't quite as equal and democratic when you cant afford food, the well is running dry, the teachers have their hand out, the syndicates will unite around rejecting wage bargains an the police and emergency services are at breaking point. Mr Kirchner was a pragmatist who boxed his way out of a corner, herself is a dogmatic sociopath clinging to an ideology she doesn't fully understand the consequences of. Bet the house on that charming devil Kiciloff and can't quite believe that it hasn't all come up roses. Protectionist control economies simply always stagnate, they are no more of a solution than letting the corporations manage the economy in casino mode.


....but yeah, the 'upper class' are at fault. Maybe they are all just good mercosur citizens and prefer to spread their wealth around the region (uruguay!)

 

[Matiasba]

I always wonder whether there are middle-class people of European descent kind of retreating to these areas or just immigrants from poorer countries.

does it matter? whats the difference? they are all argentines and thats the thing.

 

[sesamosinsal]

If the GOA's policy were to substitute imports, you'd be seeing this chart around $0, rather than hitting highs.