Kicillof Pays To 92% Of Bondholders, Griesa's Move Now?

You really can't blame Argentines for wanting their money outside of the country, can you? First, the Argentine government does everything to undermine confidence in the Peso so Argentines look to keep their money in Dollars. Second, the Argentine government decided, at will, to swap Argentines Dollars kept in bank accounts for Pesos to be repaid at some point in the future.

The reasons Argentines want their money abroad is not very hard to understand. It is never good to have two currencies running at the same time in a country but it is 100% the fault of the Argentine government. Please don't come back and argue it was a previous government. That argument has absolutely no weight.
 
You really can't blame Argentines for wanting their money outside of the country, can you? First, the Argentine government does everything to undermine confidence in the Peso so Argentines look to keep their money in Dollars. Second, the Argentine government decided, at will, to swap Argentines Dollars kept in bank accounts for Pesos to be repaid at some point in the future.

The reasons Argentines want their money abroad is not very hard to understand. It is never good to have two currencies running at the same time in a country but it is 100% the fault of the Argentine government. Please don't come back and argue it was a previous government. That argument has absolutely no weight.

Its not that they always had a government like this. They had, er, they imposed their governments along the XXth century, permitting everything they like to be done. Its not like one decade, it was from 1955 to 1983 at least, plus the 1989-1999 done by thier people. As you read, during the convertibilidad, Menem took the economists from this important economic groups and made them work "for the country". (shall I talk of the results?)

Besides making everything they wanted happen, we had a phenomena called "extranjerizacion del capital", which means, simply, that the argentine upper classes that owned a medium or large companie SOLD EVERYTHING TO CHILEANS, BRASILIANS AND AMERICANS!! Thats right, having a government on your side, instead of choosing investing in their country, they choose to sold everything and take the money outside the country. And it was not only one government, just that the last one, Menem, made everything they requested, economic measures like eliminate inflation, take debt, privatisations and even politically like indulto to the militars of the dictatorship...

This is the first government in decades that has a pro-industry mark, that do not take debt, that in general goes against the big capital and for the people (taking people out of poverty, important social plans, etc)...

There are lots of analysts that say that the problem of Argentina, the most important, is their upper classes. Unlike Chile, or Mexico, or Brazil, the upper classes dont believe in a huge country, they bet always against the country, they want a depressed, small economy. Thye dont like an important economy, an important internal market, a industrial country... Maybe thats because the several experiences of peronismo of having the lower classes with political power, like having them too close, so what they do strategically is defend the distance. Argentina is a very compact society, the most in Latin America with Uruguay, social differences arent that big, a lot less than in the countries mentioned above, the distances are relatively small...
 
Don Alberto - with all due respect - what is "moral" about robbing the people of the below mentioned "economically challenged" countries?

Elliott Management, purchased $20.7 million worth of defaulted loans made to Peru for a discounted price of $11.4 million. Elliott Associates, holding the only portion of Peru's debt remaining outside the restructure, sued Peru and won a $58 million settlement—a 400% return

In 2008, Elliott Management bought $32.6 million in loan debt incurred by the Republic of Congo, allegedly for less than $2.3 million.In 2002 and 2003 a British Court awarded Elliott more than $100 million for these debts.
Argentina robbed more than 500,000 pensioners and retail investors of more than US$ 62 400 000 000. The hedge funds rob peanuts in comparison.
 
Argentina robbed more than 500,000 pensioners and retail investors of more than US$ 62 400 000 000. The hedge funds rob peanuts in comparison.

Indeed for the idea of two crooks fighting, but should be phrased that way:
More than 500,000 pensioners and retail investors were the victims of an Argentine default for more than US$ 62 400 000 000, many Argentines suffered of the consequences. The hedge funds rob peanuts in comparison, but the Argentines would again suffer consequences.

And the origin of the debt (odious = born under the dictature) has been also harmful for the Argentines.
 
!!! Basta BAexpats - Basta Buitres !!!

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This is the first government in decades that has a pro-industry mark, that do not take debt, that in general goes against the big capital and for the people (taking people out of poverty, important social plans, etc)...

... and just another government in a long line of governments that continue to steal from the same people who elected them.

Matias, I appreciate your enthusiasm in favor of CFK, et all and what you wrote above has some merit but don't you think the average Argentine despises politicians? Does the average Argentine think CFK really made her wealth from her work as a lawyer? That's the real undermine of confidence - that politicians work for themselves, not for the average Argentine.

GS
 
Indeed for the idea of two crooks fighting, but should be phrased that way:
More than 500,000 pensioners and retail investors were the victims of an Argentine default for more than US$ 62 400 000 000, many Argentines suffered of the consequences. The hedge funds rob peanuts in comparison, but the Argentines would again suffer consequences.

And the origin of the debt (odious = born under the dictature) has been also harmful for the Argentines.
Nonsense. As I have told before, the Argentine government stepped up bond issuance in the years 1999 to 2002 (more than half the bonds were issued in those 4 years) - which dictatorship?
 
There are lots of analysts that say that the problem of Argentina, the most important, is their upper classes. Unlike Chile, or Mexico, or Brazil, the upper classes dont believe in a huge country, they bet always against the country

Yeah, Peronist analysts.

Argentina's biggest problem is a lack of confidence. Everyone on this board wants Argentina to do well, but the majority (supermajority if I remember correctly)does not believe the country will do well or trusts the leadership at municipal, provincial and especially federal level.

Argentina is an Ineptocracy, and this fact drags it down. If you have money to invest you're not going to do it in a country that can't/won't get it's shit together andputs 10 times the effort and interest in to soccer than improving the quality of life of themselves and fellow citizens.

People often like to say/quote how this administration or that one has helped lift this amount of people out of poverty (if you believe the INDEC numbers after all)but that doesn't mean it's laying the framework for a nation. Building a nation is a lot like Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, you can't just solve one need from the bottomof the pyramid and assume that needs from the top are going to be fulfilled and issues from the middle will go away. Also, $400 ARS plans don't do anything if that getsyou 4 bags of groceries this month and 3.75 next.

One of the biggest shocks to me came when I realized that of the two LatAm countries I was looking at moving to, Argentina and Colombia, have now swapped positions in terms of economy sizes and minimum wages. Minimum wage in Colombia is now 616,000 COP ($327.00 USD) while in Argentina it is now $3,600 ARS ($300.00 USD) and yes, in both countries a huge percent of people work for less, but the point is one country is moving in the right direction and one is sinking.

To put it simply: If I were a wealthy man (which I'm not since I live in Argentina and am paid in ARS) and Argentina was a stock, I'd short sell it like it was going out of style, and I think most Argentines, rich or poor, would too.
 
... and just another government in a long line of governments that continue to steal from the same people who elected them.

Matias, I appreciate your enthusiasm in favor of CFK, et all and what you wrote above has some merit but don't you think the average Argentine despises politicians? Does the average Argentine think CFK really made her wealth from her work as a lawyer? That's the real undermine of confidence - that politicians work for themselves, not for the average Argentine.

GS

Thought is different from fact, and the fact is whether you like Xtina or not, she has used Aerolineas and other means to funnel USD in to her accounts via the family's Patagonia hotels. I know this is a common thing in this part of the world, and isn't exclusive to her, but you can't escape she's no better than the rest by doing this.
 
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