Price of meat will skyrocket

[antipodean]

That's the problem, it doesn't have to be too painful for the ones already on the edge. It's already painful, more is over the edge and no future for no son.

That the country poorly manages subsidies is no guilt of the poor. That I get electricity bill of few dolars, while spending equivalent of at least 70 in my country is travesty. I didn't ask for subsidy, don't know even how to avoid it and if normal pricing even exists. Similar for a lot of services. If those subsidies would go only to the poor, we couldn't even speak of the number, cost benefit would be positive.

Normal country establish measures and targets subsidies. Argentina is terribly lacking in this regard and I expect from financial gurus to fix that, not to go the easiest way and just quit altogether. I mean, some effort is visible, but to built such system is far beyond of those meager efforts.

Completely agree that that is the way that it should be. And to a significant extent that is the way that it is already.

What bothers me is that many "anti-Mileistas" don't bother to read beyond the tag-line and seem to point and say “won’t somebody think of the poor!”, making claims that the ambiguously defined "poor" are the only ones paying for this adjustment because it has a more "noble" tone of argument to it.

Meanwhile, and here is the point, such claims frequently ignore the fact important subsidies (e.g. electricity and gas) are being left in place for all low-income earners. Food cards for families remain and were increased by 50%. Social plans including AUH for parents remain and were increased by 100%. Other programs continue to exist and be created to support the poor and the popular economy. As I touched on previously they also ignore the fact that many of the poorest already can't afford (or don't consume as much of) various items affected by price controls or special subsidies such as meat, prepagas, netflix, petrol, formal rental contracts, to face too much exposure to their rising costs. Also they tend to ignore that anyone with a formal job has wages that are constantly increasing with paritarias (by enough or not is the argument de siempre between employers and unions and looking at where they already were before this government took office, obviously not enough... great work CGT and its self-proclaimed party of the working class...) and that they continue to have access to the same public services they have always relied upon such as free education and health care.

This suggests that the adjustment should be less noticeable for the poorest in society, who at least still enjoy some padding between their reality and the market reality, than for those traditionally a bit better off who are suddenly finding themselves both without subsidies and confronting higher costs of living while trying to maintain a certain level of lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.

Moving on to that "middle class". Many of whom may seem "poor" compared to an expat with dollars or euros but are a czar compared to the impovrished low-wage worker, even with only $100-$300 more a month standing between them (by Argentine standards to date that meager difference in earnings puts them over the threshold to access a top tier gold or even black colored credit card despite not earning enough to be required to pay income tax... to put this ridiculousness into some perspective..). It is these people who seem to be complaining the loudest because they now need to cut back on small - and by no means extravagant - luxuries like a weekly asado, eating out a few times a week, daily cafe visits, Netflix, gym memberships or private health insurance or private school for the kids, which they could have only actually ever have afforded themselves thanks to a lot of money coming from the state to finance it all. Many of these people are simply finding out they were never actually as well off as they were led to believe and despite whatever efforts they made it was all a papelón of privilege.

And as for the "upper classes" who fed from this papelón? The next natural outcome, although remains to be seen in the few short weeks since this started, is that this will come back to bite them hard on the ass once all that middle-class labor - with the experience and education that they need for their businesses to make money - stop accepting monopoly money for payment and start insisting on real wages that will finance the lifestyle they are accustomed to and willing to accept that they no longer have subsidized by the state. And for those businesses that were also primarily a destination for all that monopoly money of the middle class, they too are going to have a hard time until people start having real money of their own to spend.
I truly fail to see anyone who won't eventually have something to bemoan or who will get a "free-ride" out of this kind of adjustment, which is not necessarily a bad thing since in some way everyone has been part of the problem Argentines elected to try and solve.

This whole process and objective all reminds me of what many East Germans quipped after the wall came down: “Before we had money, but could not spend it on what we wanted. Today we have no money, but all the freedom to buy whatever we want”.

 

[Frinkiac8]

I got 7 kilos for New Years from the neighborhood carniceria in the province for 47,250 pesos. At about $3/lb thats about a third of what I’d pay for similar cuts in the states, and honestly it’s hard to find decent beef for under $9.99US/lb anywhere these days, anyway. If prices double from here I imagine many families are ditching the Sunday asado.

 

[sts7049]

Completely agree that that is the way that it should be. And to a significant extent that is the way that it is already.

What bothers me is that many "anti-Mileistas" don't bother to read beyond the tag-line and seem to point and say “won’t somebody think of the poor!”, making claims that the ambiguously defined "poor" are the only ones paying for this adjustment because it has a more "noble" tone of argument to it.

Meanwhile, and here is the point, such claims frequently ignore the fact important subsidies (e.g. electricity and gas) are being left in place for all low-income earners. Food cards for families remain and were increased by 50%. Social plans including AUH for parents remain and were increased by 100%. Other programs continue to exist and be created to support the poor and the popular economy. As I touched on previously they also ignore the fact that many of the poorest already can't afford (or don't consume as much of) various items affected by price controls or special subsidies such as meat, prepagas, netflix, petrol, formal rental contracts, to face too much exposure to their rising costs. Also they tend to ignore that anyone with a formal job has wages that are constantly increasing with paritarias (by enough or not is the argument de siempre between employers and unions and looking at where they already were before this government took office, obviously not enough... great work CGT and its self-proclaimed party of the working class...) and that they continue to have access to the same public services they have always relied upon such as free education and health care.

This suggests that the adjustment should be less noticeable for the poorest in society, who at least still enjoy some padding between their reality and the market reality, than for those traditionally a bit better off who are suddenly finding themselves both without subsidies and confronting higher costs of living while trying to maintain a certain level of lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.

Moving on to that "middle class". Many of whom may seem "poor" compared to an expat with dollars or euros but are a czar compared to the impovrished low-wage worker, even with only $100-$300 more a month standing between them (by Argentine standards to date that meager difference in earnings puts them over the threshold to access a top tier gold or even black colored credit card despite not earning enough to be required to pay income tax... to put this ridiculousness into some perspective..). It is these people who seem to be complaining the loudest because they now need to cut back on small - and by no means extravagant - luxuries like a weekly asado, eating out a few times a week, daily cafe visits, Netflix, gym memberships or private health insurance or private school for the kids, which they could have only actually ever have afforded themselves thanks to a lot of money coming from the state to finance it all. Many of these people are simply finding out they were never actually as well off as they were led to believe and despite whatever efforts they made it was all a papelón of privilege.

And as for the "upper classes" who fed from this papelón? The next natural outcome, although remains to be seen in the few short weeks since this started, is that this will come back to bite them hard on the ass once all that middle-class labor - with the experience and education that they need for their businesses to make money - stop accepting monopoly money for payment and start insisting on real wages that will finance the lifestyle they are accustomed to and willing to accept that they no longer have subsidized by the state. And for those businesses that were also primarily a destination for all that monopoly money of the middle class, they too are going to have a hard time until people start having real money of their own to spend.
I truly fail to see anyone who won't eventually have something to bemoan or who will get a "free-ride" out of this kind of adjustment, which is not necessarily a bad thing since in some way everyone has been part of the problem Argentines elected to try and solve.

This whole process and objective all reminds me of what many East Germans quipped after the wall came down: “Before we had money, but could not spend it on what we wanted. Today we have no money, but all the freedom to buy whatever we want”.

great post. also don't forget that subsidies have been removed for the high earners, so there is some impact there (perhaps small).

it's impossible to direct the effects of inflation to specific groups of people who can "handle it" best. can't happen. that is the unfortunate result of decades of ignorance and money printing. the country has to eventually suffer the effects of that, there is no escaping it. you can be upset at the harshness too, but even in the USA the idea of "soft landings" the fed is trying to sell the public are probably heading towards other pains and a bit rotten if you peel back the onion a bit.

i also don't understand why you were not as upset before at the basically joke of an official exchange rate that was contributing to the central bank to accelerate its losses and lead to massive monetary issue? where were the screams then? nobody seemed to care so much because it didn't immediately affect them...

 

[mikic007]

I mean, I was concerned from before first cepo and extreme regulations, but of course wax constantly dismissed by "you don't understand, it's Argentina" (not on this forum of course). From day one it was obvious where this will lead, although I was expecting the shift earlier. It's true it was easier for me, seeing similar things first hand before, so I was more concerned how to profit from obvious opportunity. Because at the end of the day, you think of you and yours first.

What I expected was, that upper class will finally take responsibility, seeing lower class is not happy with situation. They did not. They prefered to hoard more, blaming the poor and politics, while not doing anything except keeping their status intact. I guess me first applies to everyone.

I have some touch with Argentina upper class, not highest of course, those are basically not living in the same universe as us, but old rich and well off. And they are shortsighted as f*k. Being European can't imagine that place with so much racism and hate exists. That it's completely normal to have caste system, people working for wealthy almost like indenture servants, all in black, while all the money, that should be reinvested in the country, moves out.

Argentina basically has feudal system, but democracy at the same time, and this doesn't go well together. Milei was voted by people, that should never vote for him. Means they will sack him immediately when they realise that his picture isn't what they want. It's absurd, but that happens when ignorance runs the country.

Being rational, how suffering is needed to move forward, is not working here, as it is not working for rich to understand their role in the society. In developed countries rich understand where their wealth is coming from (ideally), and they will try to shape society, where people will be driven by success, which will return in higher yield for rich as well. They will try to present opportunities to lower class with investments. This isn't happening in Argentina for decades, and it's not only politics that is guilty for that. Let's be real, who shapes politics the most? Villa certainly not. It was always playground fort he rich.

It's complex, of course. I am far from seeing the whole picture. But I see poor, that have no desire in life, and old rich, who are basically the same. Earning from leased properties and land, while investing their time in pet projects and lavish lifestyle. None of them are willing to change, but all of them want more. I see it as a ground for nasty civil unrest, and Milei can be catalyst to push it faster.

 

[QuilmesSlo]

Milei was voted by people, that should never vote for him.

Take away their vote Mikic; "they" don't understand what they are doing. Only the Worker's Soviet can represent their true interests.

FFS.

 

[Ruta Otto]

Take away their vote Mikic; "they" don't understand what they are doing. Only the Worker's Soviet can represent their true interests.

FFS.

The vote was a reflection of the antipathy felt towards Kirchnerism, not of the love felt for Libertarianism, which is poorly understood by most people, Libertarians included. Most people vaguely feel that adjustments needed to be made, but it seems that the feeling of most is that the suffering is not shared by all of society in the same measure ( which is almost always the case). Once again, people voted for slogans and sound bites, not for actual platforms.

 

[QuilmesSlo]

The vote was a reflection of the antipathy felt towards Kirchnerism, not of the love felt for Libertarianism, which is poorly understood by most people, Libertarians included. Most people vaguely feel that adjustments needed to be made, but it seems that the feeling of most is that the suffering is not shared by all of society in the same measure ( which is almost always the case). Once again, people voted for slogans and sound bites, not for actual platforms.

Libertarians themselves poorly understand libertarianism? Peak arrogance.

 

[Miguel741]

The vote was a reflection of the antipathy felt towards Kirchnerism, not of the love felt for Libertarianism, which is poorly understood by most people, Libertarians included. Most people vaguely feel that adjustments needed to be made, but it seems that the feeling of most is that the suffering is not shared by all of society in the same measure ( which is almost always the case). Once again, people voted for slogans and sound bites, not for actual platforms.

Antipathy isn't strong enough imo after 16 / 20 years of Kirchner government a large % of Argies have a burning hatred they just aren't protesting at 12am on a work night because they have to work tomorrow

 

[TWB103]

[

The vote was a reflection of the antipathy felt towards Kirchnerism, not of the love felt for Libertarianism, which is poorly understood by most people, Libertarians included. Most people vaguely feel that adjustments needed to be made, but it seems that the feeling of most is that the suffering is not shared by all of society in the same measure ( which is almost always the case). Once again, people voted for slogans and sound bites, not for actual platforms.

Poorly understood? Milei was pretty clear about what he was going to do and it wasnt difficult to understand - even for the ignorant plebs

 

[Ruta Otto]

[

Poorly understood? Milei was pretty clear about what he was going to do and it wasnt difficult to understand - even for the ignorant plebs

You are assuming most of these "ignorant plebs" (your words) took the time to actually look at his platform and think of the consequences of said platform as opposed to thinking "motosierra contra la casta" was a cool slogan on TikTok. A great many people thought the hurt was going to happen to the wealthy, not so much to themselves, since they thought things couldn't possibly get any worse for them.