Seeking advise on a "touchy topic"

[earlyretirement]

I ask because by nature I am a nice guy. The employee is completely broke and is just hanging on by a very thin "thread" in this expensive city. So feel sorry for the employee despite being abused.

Like @ Raymond says " a foolish man"!

But want to teach a small life lesson as well.

My worry is , that instead of me going to police ( I dont intend to)...can the employee go to police and make a complaint against me for not paying salary?

Mind you, this was part time work and nothing in white. All negotiation in talks and payment by cash once in 10-15 days.

FORGET about trying to "tech a small life lesson". Do NOT even think like that. You won't teach a scumbag thief like this any lesson at all. Odds are they will go to the next employer and steal from them too.

As I posted in my other thread, just pay them the 500 pesos. It's a small amount (less than $100 US) and be done with it. I've seen people in Buenos Aires "try to teach a life lesson" only to find themselves coincidentally with getting mugged or beaten on the street shortly afterwards, or their apartment broken into.

Just pay the money and try to learn from this lesson and don't try to be such a "nice guy". It's sad to say but you almost have to go into an employment relationship almost thinking that the employee will take advantage of you or steal from you. It's very sad to have to think that way but after almost a decade operating in Buenos Aires with several companies and over 50 employees there I'd say you should follow my advice.

Scum like this will never even admit they did anything wrong. Trust me. I once had an employee I CAUGHT on camera in the act of stealing. It was all on tape!

The really difficult thing was he was a great employee, had worked there for many years, and was from a wealthy family. But he stole just to steal I guess.

Even while we showed him the footage with himself on camera stealing he kept trying to deny it! I mean the proof was right there and there was nothing blocking him. The video was very clear.

By this time, I had already been though enough cases to know that you can NOT beat employees that sue you. I can give you some examples, where I chose to fight employees and spent tens of thousands of dollars on legal bills only to still get defrauded by the court system and corruption. Some things would scare you.

In this example above, I gave the employee 2 choices. I told him he could quit, and immediately send a carta documento and sign a letter saying he was quitting with NO accrual of any severance PLUS pay the $1,000 US that was taken from the video footage. Or option #2 was I'd fire him but if I fired him, I'd have to take the footage to the police station and file a criminal complaint against him and everyone else in the company would know about it.

This guy did the right thing and quit and paid back the $1,000 dollars but he signed a letter saying he was paying it back with the acknowledgement he did NOT take the money. LOL. I mean we had it all on video and the thief was STILL denying it.

And the funny thing is we got a Carta Documento (CD) shortly after that from some scumbag lawyer saying this guy was going to sue us.

I just picked up the phone and told this employee that if he pursued this action, I'd have to go to the police and this would all become public. Needless to say he dropped the lawsuit.

You can't win against these employees. Don't even try. Just pay it and move on.

 

[earlyretirement]

In this city the police will not bother with petty instances even proper assualts they pay little attention!!

Actually I'd normally agree but this isn't always the case. One time many years ago I had a dispute with a vendor. I paid the vendor funds due but then fired him as I didn't trust him for a few different reasons.

Well, one day he came to my office and he threatened me. He made some mumblings how in a town like Buenos Aires he could easily just hire a thug to rob me, cut off my hand, or break into my place "or worse".

I didn't really fear him but in speaking to my attorney he recommended that I go to the police station and file an official report. I didn't want to as I was very busy and I didn't think it would do any good. But my lawyer reasoned that if he really was thinking about doing something, if the police investigated he would think twice about it.

Nothing ever happened and a few years went by (I think it was 2 years). Imagine my surprise when I get a Carta Documento that said I had to appear before a judge as they were prosecuting this guy!

I guess it's illegal to make some threat like that which really surprised me. I had to go to court personally, I couldn't send my lawyers. I explained to the judge I'd like to drop the case as I didn't want to see anything happen to this guy. I explained that my lawyer explained it was a good idea to file the police report just in case.

The judge told me it was too late to drop the charges. Honestly, I'm not sure if anything ever happened to this guy. Or even if he still lived in Buenos Aires as it was 2 years later. LOL.

But don't always assume nothing will be done. 2 years later I did have to go testify about it...

 

[snowwhitebum]

Tell him you're going to pay. When he arrives to collect the money break his jaw with a hook, when he drops give him a volley for good measure.

 

[Ceviche]

Tell him you're going to pay. When he arrives to collect the money break his jaw with a hook, when he drops give him a volley for good measure.

Their seems to be two opposite kind of suggestions.

One, do not worry. Nothing can happen. You are in the driver's seat.

Second, do not make enemies. Pay up and carry on with life. ( Regarding this, even if I pay up , their is no guarantee that the employee will still not try to take "revenge" of me! - For me, being guilty of catching the theft red-handed!)

I know, its up to me for what path to take but really confused with such opposite suggestions.

 

[earlyretirement]

Their seems to be two opposite kind of suggestions.

One, do not worry. Nothing can happen. You are in the driver's seat.

Second, do not make enemies. Pay up and carry on with life. ( Regarding this, even if I pay up , their is no guarantee that the employee will still not try to take "revenge" of me! - For me, being guilty of catching the theft red-handed!)

I know, its up to me for what path to take but really confused with such opposite suggestions.

This should be a non-decision for you. Most of the people that are giving you silly advice like "say you are going to pay and then break their jaw" are newcomers. Most likely they haven't lived in Buenos Aires long or most certainly don't own a company there or never had employees.

This should be very clear to you. Just pay it and move on.

Never forget where you are. Argentina isn't the USA, UK or a first world country. There are some very bad things that can happen there. You never know who this person is friends with. I've known people that had disputes and had shady police officers come to them on the street or even their homes.

Do NOT underestimate the amount of corruption there and stop being so naive or nice. That's the best advice I can give you.

 

[earlyretirement]

Also one of the reasons why I almost always hired either people I knew or people that my employees already knew. I knew it would be more difficult for people to pull shady stuff or try to sue the company when they personally knew or went to school with current employees.

People underestimate what a brutal environment Argentina can be to own a company. If you can make it in Argentina you can make it anywhere.

 

[Dipperus]

I wouldn't pay him either, but I guess if you feel strongly about paying him, the least you should do is deduct the amount of money he stole.

 

[snowwhitebum]

Their seems to be two opposite kind of suggestions.

One, do not worry. Nothing can happen. You are in the driver's seat.

Second, do not make enemies. Pay up and carry on with life. ( Regarding this, even if I pay up , their is no guarantee that the employee will still not try to take "revenge" of me! - For me, being guilty of catching the theft red-handed!)

I know, its up to me for what path to take but really confused with such opposite suggestions.

I was trying to make light of your situation.

In all honesty if the guy is such a pain in you ass (with he sounds) just pay him the 500 peso's and be done with it.

It's hardly worth depriving yourself of a decent nights sleep or looking over your shoulder whenever you leave the house for the price of a few beers.

Why would he take revenge if you pay him what he is due?

Where is he from?

You seem very concerned about this situation, but in all honesty it sounds like a non event.

Whenever you fire someone (which I have on numerous occasions) they always spout off with idle threats. The fact is the guy is skint, he is hardly in a position to go hiring vigilantes, he is not from Argentina and he sounds like F#$#%$ A hole.

Guy got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, if it was in my house I would of cut it off the first time.

 

[Iznogud]

You do not want the police at your place under any circumstance. Police does not work for you, they follow orders of an abstract they can not even grasp themselves. In the meantime you don't want unknown poorly remunerated, armed and discontented employees oogling your goodies and knowing when and where to find you, no sir.

Labor laws always favor the employee. I assist a CPA regularly and we have potential employees take several physical and psychological test previous to any employment contract. These candidates come to and from diverse commercial activities and jobs. Too many to count. It's a small investment that usually proves very usefull. Worth the money compared to the other customers that decide to forfait the test and offer the jobs based on first impressions.

No use banging on Ceviche, trust is in our nature and distrust is learned socially. Or was it the other way around?

 

[Ceviche]

Ok guys.

Thanks.

I think I have reached a conclusion.

will pay the employee off without any arguments.

Not worth it. And 500 pesos wont make me richer.